Investing in rum - Foursquare

[Heirlooms]

There'll probably won't be much interest but thought I'd put it out there. I started a small rum collection made up of the vintage releases from Foursquares Exceptional Cask Series. I've noticed that it has really garnered a lot of interest of late and was wondering if anyone else collects Foursquare rum or any other rums. Whiskey is the daddy of the spirit world of course but rum seems to be gathering pace

Edited April 23, 2021 by Heirlooms

[Heirlooms]

As suspected no rum sippers in here 😩😂. Whiskey is most definitely more favourable but there are some lovely rums which bourbon enthusiasts would love. I'll give it a year or two and revisit this post 😂 

[Shinus73]

I managed to get a bottle of the Redoubtable, but that’s my only one. Primarily a whisky man.

[Heirlooms]

43 minutes ago, Shinus73 said:

I managed to get a bottle of the Redoubtable, but that’s my only one. Primarily a whisky man.

I didn't get a Redoubtable but I've tried a friends bottle. Have you tried it yet? If so what do you think?

[Stacktastic]

I have decided today to invest some of my money into alcohol. 
I dont trust the markets, property & even Gold is looking expensive.
Rare Tangibles like watches & art make sense, but as I make my own vodka - this makes sense. 

I originally thought wine, but I feel the storage of it might be a problem. 
Combined to the fact its a saturated market. 

I feel we could be coming into a very good time to pick up cheaper alcohol if the economy tanks. 
I am starting to think Whiskey is a is a better idea, but the rum sector gets my interests. 
My brother in law drinks very expensive rum, so thats a good person to go to. 

What else can i look into as this is a new subject for me. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Stacktastic

[HerefordBullyun]

4 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

I have decided today to invest some of my money into alcohol. 
I dont trust the markets, property & even Gold is looking expensive.
Rare Tangibles like watches & art make sense, but as I make my own vodka - this makes sense. 

I originally thought wine, but I feel the storage of it might be a problem. 
Combined to the fact its a saturated market. 

I feel we could be coming into a very good time to pick up cheaper alcohol if the economy tanks. 
I am starting to think Whiskey is a is a better idea, but the rum sector gets my interests. 
My brother in law drinks very expensive rum, so thats a good person to go to. 

What else can i look into as this is a new subject for me. 

Flipping art I believe there was thread started by Mr Dead and it looked intresting. Maybe make some poocheen squeezed through the knickers of a famous celebrity and get said celeb put it on thier only fans page, and cut them in on the sales! Where theres literally muck theres brass, but depends on said celebs knickers how clean they are!

[Stacktastic]

1 hour ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Flipping art I believe there was thread started by Mr Dead and it looked intresting. Maybe make some poocheen squeezed through the knickers of a famous celebrity and get said celeb put it on thier only fans page, and cut them in on the sales! Where theres literally muck theres brass, but depends on said celebs knickers how clean they are!

Or who the celeb is. 

12 year old double malt John Prescot
vs
6 year old blended Scarlett Johanson - Hmm. 😛

Edited June 13, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Stacktastic]

I am deciding to buy scotch on the discounts, but stack vintage rums, especially collections of rums. 
Foursquare is good as you have said @Heirlooms . This video states the following: 

HAVANA CLUB

DICTADOR

FOUR SQUARE

PLANTATION
Im a little suspicious that Dictador have sponsored the video below - what do you think? 

Looks like its very early days & think yes it could rival whisky as it is at the moment in 10-20 years!!
Im really pleased I have finally found asset to invest in, especially as I make my own neutral spirit, gin & whiskey from scratch
so I am very proficient in distilling & understand the process. 
 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Heirlooms]

32 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

I am deciding to buy scotch on the discounts, but stack vintage rums, especially collections of rums. 
Foursquare is good as you have said @Heirlooms . This video states the following: 

HAVANA CLUB

DICTADOR

FOUR SQUARE

PLANTATION
Im a little suspicious that Dictador have sponsored the video below - what do you think? 

Looks like its very early days & think yes it could rival whisky as it is at the moment in 10-20 years!!
Im really pleased I have finally found asset to invest in, especially as I make my own neutral spirit, gin & whiskey from scratch
so I am very proficient in distilling & understand the process. 
 

 

Welcome! Yeah not sure about Dictador. Seems overhyped. Short term gains but long term it won't be a thing. Havana Club is good but they release a lot and you have to know what your getting from an investment POV. Plantation have a bit of a bad rep so not really into it long term. I've kept it really simple and only investing in Foursquare, Velier and Caroni. Not cheap but the best rum investments long term in my opinion. Caroni in particular has bags of potential as its a distillery that was closed down a few years back. Velier have been releasing whats left over the last few years but once its gone its gone

[Stacktastic]

This guy is very forward thinking & for along term investment this needs to be taken into account. Quite impressive. 
13.54. Tracability issues, organic, GM & insecticides. 
Let alone the health issues related to all the sugars & additives.

The babies of today could hold this in higher regard in 30 years years over the rarity, years aged or history of the distillery. 
A decent organic rum is an oddity thats for sure. just my thoughts.
My third hour into this, but I intend to explore. 
 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Stacktastic]

5 minutes ago, Heirlooms said:

Welcome! Yeah not sure about Dictador. Seems overhyped. Short term gains but long term it won't be a thing. Havana Club is good but they release a lot and you have to know what your getting from an investment POV. Plantation have a bit of a bad rep so not really into it long term. I've kept it really simple and only investing in Foursquare, Velier and Caroni. Not cheap but the best rum investments long term in my opinion. Caroni in particular has bags of potential as its a distillery that was closed down a few years back. Velier have been releasing whats left over the last few years but once its gone its gone

Yeah My borhterin law said about foursquare. seems sensible as a place to start.
Any ideas on what might be popular in the future. I literally know nothing, but its not that different to sovereigns really. get the deals when they present themselves. 

[Heirlooms]

11 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

This guy is very forward thinking & for along term investment this needs to be taken into account. Quite impressive. 
13.54. Tracability issues, organic, GM & insecticides. 
Let alone the health issues related to all the sugars & additives.

The babies of today could hold this in higher regard to the years and history of the distillery. 
A decent organic rum is an oddity thats for sure. just my thoughts.
My third hour into this, but I intend to explore. 

He's right, hence why I'm staying away from the Dictadors of the world and why Foursquare is so popular investment wise. Their owner Richard Seale is big on transparency, ethics and not additives, he doesn't mince his words. I'm relatively new to this myself, only started collecting this year. Learnt a lot from rumauctioneer.com by looking at the brands and historical prices. There's also a good YouTube channel called New Rum Club. Its quite new but the guy that does it really knows his stuff about good credible rum https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJM5WyZaurOlxDNyBA5HoIA

[Stacktastic]

On 23/04/2021 at 22:10, Heirlooms said:

There'll probably won't be much interest but thought I'd put it out there. I started a small rum collection made up of the vintage releases from Foursquares Exceptional Cask Series. I've noticed that it has really garnered a lot of interest of late and was wondering if anyone else collects Foursquare rum or any other rums. Whiskey is the daddy of the spirit world of course but rum seems to be gathering pace

I like that four square set, looks like a fabulous first purchase, briefer they start getting expensive. If just the 2008. 
Whats this company like, they seem to have a great rangel: https://www.rumshop.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=2520664&category=2695065&sort=priced&Page=2 

What are the key four brands or bottles??

I have 

HAVANA CLUB

DICTADOR

FOUR SQUARE

PLANTATION

Appelton estate

mount gay - 1703

 

edit - ohhh just found this place, not a million miles from me either - they have a lot of quality rum 
i would rather go and buy a bulk purchase of 100% guaranteed bottles to go up in value and get a discount in the process. 

What do you think of the prices, they look like a large dealer as they seem to do everything!!

https://www.farehamwinecellar.co.uk/product-category/spirit/?swoof=1&product_cat=rum&really_curr_tax=7622-product_cat 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Heirlooms]

3 hours ago, Stacktastic said:

I like that four square set, looks like a fabulous first purchase, briefer they start getting expensive. If just the 2008. 
Whats this company like, they seem to have a great rangel: https://www.rumshop.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=2520664&category=2695065&sort=priced&Page=2 

What are the key four brands or bottles??

I have 

HAVANA CLUB

DICTADOR

FOUR SQUARE

PLANTATION

Appelton estate

mount gay - 1703

 

edit - ohhh just found this place, not a million miles from me either - they have a lot of quality rum 
i would rather go and buy a bulk purchase of 100% guaranteed bottles to go up in value and get a discount in the process. 

What do you think of the prices, they look like a large dealer as they seem to do everything!!

https://www.farehamwinecellar.co.uk/product-category/spirit/?swoof=1&product_cat=rum&really_curr_tax=7622-product_cat 

I'd say Havana Club, Appleton, Mount Gay and Foursquare are legit. Still not sure on Plantation and Dictador long term but thats just me. Have you checked out rumauctioneer.com? You can look at the prices these rums are going for and look at past auctions to see what they have gone for in the past. Gives you a good idea of what distilleries are doing well but also what specific bottles are appreciating. Completely depends on your budget but Caroni for investment purposes is my bet. Rare Whiskey 101 tracks the index's of the best whiskey distilleries in the world on how they are doing investment wise (https://www.rarewhisky101.com/indices) and Caroni is the only rum distillery they track...! 

https://www.rarewhisky101.com/indices/distillery-specific-indices/caroni-rum-index

[Stacktastic]

2 hours ago, Heirlooms said:

I'd say Havana Club, Appleton, Mount Gay and Foursquare are legit. Still not sure on Plantation and Dictador long term but thats just me. Have you checked out rumauctioneer.com? You can look at the prices these rums are going for and look at past auctions to see what they have gone for in the past. Gives you a good idea of what distilleries are doing well but also what specific bottles are appreciating. Completely depends on your budget but Caroni for investment purposes is my bet. Rare Whiskey 101 tracks the index's of the best whiskey distilleries in the world on how they are doing investment wise (https://www.rarewhisky101.com/indices) and Caroni is the only rum distillery they track...! 

https://www.rarewhisky101.com/indices/distillery-specific-indices/caroni-rum-index

Thanks Yes i agree. Its worth building up collections of the main ones to spread the risk. 
This is very simple as there are only 4 of them so the learning curve is straight forward. 
Also one of them may go out of business or mess up its brand (as it has family influence). 
Doubt that very much but they may be bought by someone like Baccardi who water down the brand (quite literally) as they tend to do. 

Found this video a nice overview of foursquare, always nice to get a bit of insight into the company. 
I have heard about this added sugar thing a few times
and I think that something to seriously bear in mind for future generations with an increasing health awareness. 
GM crops and other stuff is also worth considering, It will be a very different place in 20 years. 

Right off to the Tesco alcohol isle now. When Im onto something I don't fxck about.
 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Antwerpstacker]

Got me this book today, a must have for rumfaces. 

 

[Stacktastic]

Just found a good channel for foursquare stuff- he takes in to consideration investing too. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJM5WyZaurOlxDNyBA5HoIA/search?query=FOURSQUARE

 

 

 

[Stacktastic]

Righty.. in order to get up to steam in as little times possible i have listed the whole of the foursquare range and have trolled through every winning bid on rum auctions since 2020. 
I have organised them into order & have put an average, high low anomy idea of a decent price. 

What has shocked me is some of the stupidly high bids people have put in, some them many hundreds more than the norm. 
I get the impression its FOMO buying with free handouts, possibly the same person??
Who ever paid £2800 for the 70th destino is a muppet as its traded at 480 and 700 recently. 

What i have noticed is the prices went up a lot last year but have come down quite a bit. 
Mybestguess is this trend will continue because: 

- people aren't going to be sat on thier asses getting free money
- they will need the money & sell so supply will increase
- bars restaurants and top end places will be opening again, combined with imports. 

Im gunning straight for the 16 year shibboleth - I tried to buy one but had no luck. 
Any of the 14's in the ECS, but the ones that have hit decent highs and are not that old. 
Destino 70th at the right price, I like the triptych as it has a cool name LOL.  
@Heirlooms
15 year anniversary should go down well too. 

A good tactic is to pick 3-4 & put in low bids across the board maybe?? 
Assuming i can afford them if I win them all. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Stacktastic

[GoldDiggerDave]

Good to see this topic! Don't mind a drop of the good stuff.  Got a collection of Macallan

[Stacktastic]

1 hour ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Good to see this topic! Don't mind a drop of the good stuff.  Got a collection of Macallan

Yeah its a good thing to invest in as its tangible and if you buy the right stuff and store it it wont go down. 
I would love to go back and buy a ton of the Japanese stuff. but Mccallan is a no brainer. 
I find its a bit saturated now and I can really see a lot higher prices in the rum space at some point.

As I make my own top quality vodka and a ton of it stacked up, so I am not going to dip into my investments. 
I have the cupboard planned with a combination lock from the kids.

Its a good distraction while I keep out of the stock market all too easy to get back in. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Heirlooms]

8 hours ago, Stacktastic said:

Just found a good channel for foursquare stuff- he takes in to consideration investing too. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJM5WyZaurOlxDNyBA5HoIA/search?query=FOURSQUARE

 

 

 

 

On 16/06/2021 at 22:53, Heirlooms said:

There's also a good YouTube channel called New Rum Club. Its quite new but the guy that does it really knows his stuff about good credible rum https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJM5WyZaurOlxDNyBA5HoIA

You mean this channel I recommend above? 😂😂😂 Yeah this is a great video of a Foursquare ECS range. Surprised there isn't more comprehensive videos like this on YouTube

[Stacktastic]

3 hours ago, Heirlooms said:

 

You mean this channel I recommend above?
Surprised there isn't more comprehensive videos like this on YouTube

Sorry I must have missed that.

Great if you ask me thats means not many other people are looking at this space for investment.

Its a bit like Uranium stocks in 2020, I thought I had sometime, but north cats out the bag.

Judging by the fact that Shibboleth sold-out in about 20 mins today on drink finder that range is one seriously sought after drink, but there is space that it might go out the window if there is a depression/recession. If that happens im buying yamasaki.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Stacktastic]

I have said on my list F-knows for the 2006 and I was right.
This one is already at £1000!!! 34 bids!

https://rumauctioneer.com/lot/6004463/foursquare-2006-velier-10-year-old

[Antwerpstacker]

I took a trip to Luxembourg today to fill up my cabinet. Spirits are 30 to 35% cheaper than in Belgium. I was a bit disappointed by their available selection, but snapped up these bottles.

 

[272]

Not Four square but I picked up a bottle of Caroni for the investment pile.

I took a bit of a punt with a new bottler called 'That boutique-y rum company', but I'm pretty confident it will do well as they've got good reviews for this expression and the rum is aged 20 yrs and bottled at cask strength.

Velier is still the king for Caroni but everyone knows it so limited gains possible and eye watering entry prices!