Does it make sense for me to purchase gold or silver first?

[ARehmat]

3 minutes ago, BedMac said:

Personally, I would invest in silver to start with. It is cheaper and you can accumulate some metal (I prefer to have it in hand, so I have it all delivered) - like @Chronixsaid - you feel like actually you own something. When you accumulate nice ammount of silver, you could swap it for gold once gold/silver ratio is low - currently it is quite high I believe - 114. That is how I am planning to do it. I am also new to this game, so time will tell if I am right.

Nice idea. I have just purchased 5x1oz Silver Austrian Philharmonics. Beautiful coins. The idea of starting with silver does make sense to me. Easier to sell quickly due to its low cost and over time I will have more to invest in gold. Looking to save up for a Gold Half Sovereign 

[TheApe]

For me, its all about the Gold. 

I do own a small amount of silver, but if owned no Gold I would be focusing on that solely. 

Im not a massive fan of silver.

[Shep]

On 04/05/2020 at 13:01, sixgun said:

If we compare the spot price of silver and gold, silver is very cheap. The problem is buying silver coins and bars is not so cheap. The spot price of silver now is £12.07 but the cheapest silver coins on the forum are £19 + postage. A few Britannias on order at Atkinsons are £22.42 - post free. The cheapest on goldsilver.be - Maples £18.36 + postage. This is too much in my mind when spot is £12.

@BedMac ^ what sixgun says here I think sums it up perfectly.

I really cannot get my head around why people endlessly quote the holy grail that is the silver to gold ratio - there is little to no way on earth you can buy the physical silver bullion bars or coins at that ratio. 

Silver IMO is golds little ginger unloved cousin, it acts as a middle man and rears it’s head catching  the interest of new stackers, then quickly falls out of favour with them when they realise it’s is probably never going to “shoot the moon” - By which time they begin stacking gold and are left with silver that they will have to wait for an eternity for the spot price to catch up to ever have the possibility breaking even on it.

Edit: Posted in the spirit of friendly discussion and not a personal criticism of those who stack silver.

[GoldElliott]

2 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Silver IMO is golds little ginger unloved cousin, it acts as a middle man and rears it’s head catching  the interest of new stackers, then quickly falls out of favour with them when they realise it’s is probably never going to “shoot the moon” - By which time they begin stacking gold and are left with silver that they will have to wait for an eternity for the spot price to catch up to ever have the possibility breaking even on it.

Just my thoughts:

As an investment and preserver or wealth I back gold over silver all day and would 'stack' gold over silver.

For a hobby/ numismatics on a budget silver is better. Not many people can have a 500 coin collection of gold coins, however by collecting world silvers, British pre-decimals or even .999 bullion a massive collection is possible. Additionally, a lot of people on here make things from silver- bars, ingots, jewelry etc.

Horses for courses  

[Shep]

1 minute ago, GoldElliott said:

Just my thoughts:

As an investment and preserver or wealth I back gold over silver all day and would 'stack' gold over silver.

For a hobby/ numismatics on a budget silver is better. Not many people can have a 500 coin collection of gold coins, however by collecting world silvers, British pre-decimals or even .999 bullion a massive collection is possible. Additionally, a lot of people on here make things from silver- bars, ingots, jewelry etc.

Horses for courses  

+1 to that.

I completely agree with you on that from a numismatic/collecting point of view.

[BedMac]

9 minutes ago, Shep said:

@BedMac ^ what sixgun says here I think sums it up perfectly.

I really cannot get my head around why people endlessly quote the holy grail that is the silver to gold ratio - there is little to no way on earth you can buy the physical silver bullion bars or coins at that ratio. 

Silver IMO is golds little ginger unloved cousin, it acts as a middle man and rears it’s head catching  the interest of new stackers, then quickly falls out of favour with them when they realise it’s is probably never going to “shoot the moon” - By which time they begin stacking gold and are left with silver that they will have to wait for an eternity for the spot price to catch up to ever have the possibility breaking even on it.

Edit: Posted in the spirit of friendly discussion and not a personal criticism of those who stack silver.

Everybody have some strategy which he/she believes in. If there was the only one holy startegy, everybody would use it.

When crisis strikes, and I thing one is coming soon, gold and silver will go up in value. You might look at silver prices in 2011 - nearly 50$

I am far from saying that I am right, it is just what I believe and do 🤷‍♂️

 

 

On 04/05/2020 at 13:01, sixgun said:

i would echo the suggestion to save a bit more and get some gold.
i have heard past comments from members here and others elsewhere that they have been disappointed in their silver purchases. They have gone off silver completely. Now in previous years silver got to high prices and if they bought at those times they are nursing losses but it goes further than that.

If we compare the spot price of silver and gold, silver is very cheap. The problem is buying silver coins and bars is not so cheap. The spot price of silver now is £12.07 but the cheapest silver coins on the forum are £19 + postage. A few Britannias on order at Atkinsons are £22.42 - post free. The cheapest on goldsilver.be - Maples £18.36 + postage. This is too much in my mind when spot is £12. i have bought a fair amount of silver in the past but i am not prepared to pay this amount of premium over spot. i have my silver so i am not desperate to get anymore. Gold is also a higher premium than it used to be but it is still much nearer spot price. Pound for pound if the price of an ounce gold coin were the same as silver it would be £2170 - You expect a very special gold coin for that, not the equivalent of the cheapest bullion coin. 

You really could do to save up enough to get at least a half sovereign. You might find smaller coins at similar premiums over spot but they is more difficult to find and will tend to be less popular designs which you might have problems shifting easily when you come to sell one day. Sovereigns and halves are pretty straight forward to sell. In just about every post where someone asked what they should buy, the answer is get a sovereign.

I agree with @sixgun100% 

To minimise that I buy bars, which usually have smaller premiums.

[Prophecy]

2 hours ago, TheApe said:

This is a bad way to buy small amounts.

Bullionvault charge .8 percent to buy Gold at daily spot. Then another .8 percent to sell. Then there is a withdrawal fee back to your bank account.

Then they charge minimum of $4 a month to store the gold.

All theses fees and then you also need to pay premium when you buy the Gold.

 

Depends on the amounts you're playing with and what your liquidity strategy is. Still works out less, right now, than getting a small fractional coin off the bat

[freefall]

Go for gold but wait until you can buy sovereign or 1/4 ounce to keep the premium down. 

Gold is unique amongst precious metals for a multitude or reasons. I’m not going to bore you with the science, economics and history of gold but I find it fascinating and that’s the reason I’m a gold bug. There really is nothing like it and it’s the last thing I would ever sell.

I do hold some silver and platinum as a way to diversify my holdings of precious metals. I hold gold : silver : platinum in a ratio of 90 : 5 : 5 in terms of £‘s. 
 

 

[johnno]

That fact that everyone has a different strategy proves that there is no correct or wrong strategy. The only way we could know the right strategy to use would be to know the future and know one knows that! Personally i'm in the process of rebuilding my stack after having sold it all (to go towards an BMW M6, worst decision ever) and its hard to decide what to buy, but don't worry it will soon stack up. Buy what you can with the lowest premium be it silver or gold (gold at time or writing) and as you go along you will know what you like, what you don't like and take it from there. Worst case scenario you buy something, you don't like it you can sell it!

I probably don't help matters

[Spere]

On 07/05/2020 at 21:13, freefall said:

Go for gold but wait until you can buy sovereign or 1/4 ounce to keep the premium down. 

Gold is unique amongst precious metals for a multitude or reasons. I’m not going to bore you with the science, economics and history of gold but I find it fascinating and that’s the reason I’m a gold bug. There really is nothing like it and it’s the last thing I would ever sell.

I do hold some silver and platinum as a way to diversify my holdings of precious metals. I hold gold : silver : platinum in a ratio of 90 : 5 : 5 in terms of £‘s. 
 

 

As a novice stacker, I'm wondering why anyone would stack gold sovereigns, if you want to maximize your pure PM content (forget about hobby/numismatics for now)? I have an assumption (uneducated maybe), that they are trash metal, with bad resell value, since they are not pure. For example, can you sell them to people who make jewellery? Can they melt tainted gold and re-use it? :-) Please someone explain to a newb.

Doing my first PM purchase soon with maximum 1000€ budget, and probably going for just single 1/2 ounce gold coin (24K) or bar, because let's face it, silver coin premiums are ridiculously high. Or if I decide to cheap skate, going silver bars to reduce premium. Still undecided, hard times, hard decisions.

[HawkHybrid]

7 minutes ago, Spere said:

As a novice stacker, I'm wondering why anyone would stack gold sovereigns,

 

sovereigns are the most liquid cgt free coins in the uk.

 

HH

[freefall]

20 minutes ago, Spere said:

As a novice stacker, I'm wondering why anyone would stack gold sovereigns, if you want to maximize your pure PM content (forget about hobby/numismatics for now)? I have an assumption (uneducated maybe), that they are trash metal, with bad resell value, since they are not pure. For example, can you sell them to people who make jewellery? Can they melt tainted gold and re-use it? 🙂 Please someone explain to a newb.

Doing my first PM purchase soon with maximum 1000€ budget, and probably going for just single 1/2 ounce gold coin (24K) or bar, because let's face it, silver coin premiums are ridiculously high. Or if I decide to cheap skate, going silver bars to reduce premium. Still undecided, hard times, hard decisions.

You can buy gold sovereigns with very little premium attached. If you sell 22 carat or 24 carat bullion coins back to a bullion dealer there is either no or very little difference in what they will pay. They are interested in the fine gold weight. Krugerands, American gold eagles and many other coins are 22 carat. 

Some countries in Asia prefer 24 carat but to most 22 or 24 doesn't really matter.

Yes. Gold that has been mixed with other metals can be refined and made pure again.

[Spere]

Thanks for clarifications HawkHybrid and freefall.

Have you ever (or know someone) who sold gold to goldsmiths or even small tech companies (who use gold in their products)? If so, are they paying any good? In theory, I like the idea, that you would have as large customer base as possible to sell to, not just bullion dealers or random collectors.

[OriginalS]

46 minutes ago, Spere said:

As a novice stacker, I'm wondering why anyone would stack gold sovereigns

Please stick to 24k coins and bars, leave more sovereigns for me to buy 😝

 

On a serious note though, I think sovereigns are the most popular gold coin, especially in the UK in this forum, they're so much easier to sell of 1oz or 1/2oz coins simply because the price is lower, opens up to so many more buyers. 

 

I can afford to buy one, maybe two in a good month full sovereigns but if I wanted to buy 1oz coins I'd have to wait 4 months.

 

Any small tech company just buys boards and electrical components from Taiwan or China

[Spere]

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Please stick to 24k coins and bars, leave more sovereigns for me to buy 😝

 

On a serious note though, I think sovereigns are the most popular gold coin, especially in the UK in this forum, they're so much easier to sell of 1oz or 1/2oz coins simply because the price is lower, opens up to so many more buyers. 

 

I can afford to buy one, maybe two in a good month full sovereigns but if I wanted to buy 1oz coins I'd have to wait 4 months

Good points, I may have underestimated the importance of liquidity.

What about worldwide, America and Asia for example. Sovereigns have strong liquidity there too?

[DBCooper]

Re Sovereigns and Liquidity

I work internationally usually  Africa , Asia and the Middle East, I have homes in both Europe and South East Asia. So I travel extensively. 

 I have yet to find a place where Sov's are not sort after, and or cannot be brought and sold easily. Alongside Krug's they are recognised almost everywhere on the planet

 Sov's because of their size,  price point and affordability compared to 1 oz coins are very easy to sell anywhere. IMHO they have to be the most liquid coins in the world Barr None.

Personally they are not my favourite coin but if you want liquidity Sov's all day long.

regards 

DB

[Horse]

I agree with @johnno.  Buy the best metal you can with the lowest premium.  Now I'm not sure how much harder it is to sell a lesser brand but I would buy something recognizable.  American eagles are great here in the US, as are maples.  Sovs, and Krugs seem to be great for most of the world, as well.  I would shy away from grams of gold.  That's a small amount with a high premium.  A 1/10 eagle and a 5g bar are the smallest I've got but they were good prices.  I wouldn't mind getting another four 1/10 eagles just to make it a nice round 1/2oz but I wouldn't go any smaller in size.  Whatever you do, don't buy with a plan to get rich.  Buy to save your wealth in something physical and in your possession.  Gold is king but silver is fun.  Lots of choices and you can accumulate a wider variety for less money.  Always have fun with your purchases.

[Spere]

Thanks for all the info guys. Now I can go and buy them unpure gold coins, without too much anxiety. \o/

[ChrisSilver]

Topic moved to General Precious metals section as it is about both Gold and Silver.

[Metalisreal]

I would avoid the tiny gram gold these days as premiums are simply too high to make it worthwhile. 

I have bought these in the past. The last one I got was a PAMP bar I paid US$45 and you have probably have to pay twice that to get one of these now. Also not too long ago I was really itching to to get some gold but I had to settle for a 1/20 oz Australian "Roo" for US$67 and I thought I got ripped off. Now these same things are going for roughly twice that amount.