1887 £5 proof sovereign real or fake ?

[Sovereign]

hi

saw this on ebay 

not sure if it’s real or fake 

the fields look too clean for 1887 proof sovereign?

also the seller said he will accept £3k which is way too cheap 

let me know what you think please 

@sovereignsteve 

@Numistacker

@Marc

@AndreasAfeldt

@1817SovereignCollector

[Sovereign]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NO-RESERVE-1887-PROOF-QUEEN-VICTORIA-5-POUND-GOLD-COIN-22k-39-9gr-36mm-RARE/264364984741?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dd2184363319a48ea88b10d4172dc774b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D264364984741%26itm%3D264364984741&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad97b5882-92c6-11e9-b2ec-74dbd1800e79|parentrq%3A712bfaa716b0aa166f8349d4ffd14ab9|iid%3A1

[goldmember44]

The level of detail on the reverse image (horse) looks poor.

[Elements]

Here’s a real one from PCGS database

The horses tail detail looks different to me

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/84614379

 

[goldmember44]

Oh yes, now one can see a big difference. Clearly a fake.

[sovereignsteve]

fake on first glance

 

[Sovereign]

Just now, sovereignsteve said:

fake on first glance

 

so could be fake 22ct gold  

[sovereignsteve]

and now just seen the real one, even more fake😂

[sovereignsteve]

3 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

so could be fake 22ct gold  

probably, but expensive bullion

 

[sovereignsteve]

15 minutes ago, Elements said:

The horses tail detail looks different to me

the tail is usually the big giveaway with these fakes.

so if they get that right we're buggered

[Elements]

5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

the tail is usually the big giveaway with these fakes.

so if they get that right we're buggered

Lol yeah.

poor George looks a bit skinny too. More muscular in the real one 💪

[sovereignsteve]

if it were genuine, i've no idea how it could have so much wear on the reverse and none on the obverse

[Xander]

The B.P. is a giveaway. False as a nine bob bit.

[vicamy]

So from a buyer point of view, the seller looks legit to me with 100% review over more than 12 months and legal information available. If the coin is fake, then we are really buggered.

If, say, we bought a coin, the seller sent it and you received it, then found out it is a fake, but the seller insists it was a real coin sent. basically one’s word against the other. There is an ebay money back guarantee, but how does it work in this situation?

[Sovereign]

6 minutes ago, vicamy said:

So from a buyer point of view, the seller looks legit to me with 100% review over more than 12 months and legal information available. If the coin is fake, then we are really buggered.

If, say, we bought a coin, the seller sent it and you received it, then found out it is a fake, but the seller insists it was a real coin sent. basically one’s word against the other. There is an ebay money back guarantee, but how does it work in this situation?

ebay with the buyer %100 

you open a case to return the coin (not as described) 

ebay will approve your return request even if he didn’t (take time though)

then you will get a refund after it’s been delivered back to the seller 

 

i’m not saying go and buy the coin 😂

[sovereignsteve]

13 minutes ago, Xander said:

The B.P. is a giveaway.

aye that too😁

[vicamy]

8 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

ebay with the buyer %100 

you open a case to return the coin (not as described) 

ebay will approve your return request even if he didn’t (take time though)

then you will get a refund after it’s been delivered back to the seller 

 

i’m not saying go and buy the coin 😂

Thanks @Sovereign. That’s really good to know.👍

[Cornishfarmer]

HGM sold a fake to a member here if I remember correctly so they must be hard to spot even by professionals.     Can’t remember if the outcome was published.   @Kman? Can you shed light?

[Clens92]

2 hours ago, vicamy said:

So from a buyer point of view, the seller looks legit to me with 100% review over more than 12 months and legal information available. If the coin is fake, then we are really buggered.

If, say, we bought a coin, the seller sent it and you received it, then found out it is a fake, but the seller insists it was a real coin sent. basically one’s word against the other. There is an ebay money back guarantee, but how does it work in this situation?

Not always with the buyer.  I have won most of my disputes as a seller, because the evidence I provide is irrefutable.  Don't buy on the basis that you'll win a dispute; if they're a good seller then eBay will back them.

[sovereignsteve]

22 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

HGM sold a fake to a member here if I remember correctly so they must be hard to spot even by professionals.     Can’t remember if the outcome was published.   @Kman? Can you shed light?

I've had two fakes from HGM, bullions though not proofs. One of them was exceptionally good. Someone else has had one too.

[Nick1368]

I'd just avoid eBay and never buy anything more expensive than £50 from either eBay or amazon because i had a few bad experiences both as seller and buyer (not PMs), but I do think when it comes to eBay, genuine and honest sellers have a lot more to lose than buyers.

[Nick1368]

1 minute ago, sovereignsteve said:

I've had two fakes from HGM, bullions though not proofs. One of them was exceptionally good. Someone else has had one too.

nooo way, that's shocking, what happened then ?

[Zhorro]

3 hours ago, Sovereign said:

hi

saw this on ebay 

not sure if it’s real or fake 

the fields look too clean for 1887 proof sovereign?

also the seller said he will accept £3k which is way too cheap 

let me know what you think please 

@sovereignsteve 

@Numistacker

@Marc

@AndreasAfeldt

@1817SovereignCollector

 

The same person also has a worn 1911 quintuple sovereign up for auction.  I know there are forgeries of this coin too.

[sovereignsteve]

2 minutes ago, Nick1368 said:

nooo way, that's shocking, what happened then ?

one was easy to spot but the other had me fooled for quite a while. in the end i sent it off for grading to check. HGM were very good about it; refunded me in full even though spot had dropped a fair bit.

[dicker]

Take a look at the other items for sale by the same seller....