Sovereign Errors, Overdates and Varieties

[dicker]

On 24/12/2023 at 19:07, Allgoldcoins said:

Happy Christmas to you all.

I wonder what the forum makes of this date error in my 1847 sovereign, any ideas?

 

Agreed that the numeral positioning can be haphazard.

The 4 is set higher than the other numerals from what I can see, but this is not unusual in itself. 

Could be an over strike but then I would expect other evidence of this.

More likely (imho) is someone trying to fix a poorly or wrongly punched number.  

I have not seen one of these before.  
 

Best

Dicker

[GoldDiggerDave]

On 24/12/2023 at 19:07, Allgoldcoins said:

Happy Christmas to you all.

I wonder what the forum makes of this date error in my 1847 sovereign, any ideas?

 

Inverted 7/4

[dicker]

6 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Inverted 7/4

Like the thinking.  

[Allgoldcoins]

7 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Inverted 7/4

I am still with the Rabbit over 4 TBH 😀

[GoldDiggerDave]

2 minutes ago, Allgoldcoins said:

I am still with the Rabbit over 4 TBH 😀

I've had some very good results with getting the NGC to apply the error/date over pedigrees  recently.     

[Spyder]

This is from thecoincabinet in their Glossary of Terms

Error

A numismatic item that unintentionally varies from the norm. Overdates and overmint marks are not considered errors since they were done intentionally.

[Petra]

Once you see the rabbit it is hard to see anything else, however, now I see a small kangaroo 🤔😮

[Guest]

https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=Sovereign 1841&searchtype=1

Medal alignment 1841, both barred and unbarred As. Very interesting to see

[JoeBlack]

I am trying to find more information on the 1861 rotated C in Victoria variety sovereign. Is there any way to check the variants identified. Are there two or more types?

Type 1: The Bentley collection listed one type with a 90 deg clockwise rotation on the "C" which also had an R over R error. The Marsh book pictures this "C" over 90 Deg C as 44B (R2), Spink Book does not show a picture. I have seen several of this version online. 

 

Type 2: Different from the above where the "C" seems inverted 180 deg possibly, all this version I have seen have over stamps on the Victoria V, I and date also a die crack at D in DEI.

 

Also someone selling this second version here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125735351145?hash=item1d46693369:g:gBsAAOSwV0Bjz-qL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwMWOPf1yL%2BY50u1%2B5NRbCLei6CwNWuJ93U%2BKW%2B0yNKhkO%2Bn3oGP2NjZSxMl79%2F7vYyZbTuDy4vtBqVShHxrZj5jM6JL1nUYPvq%2FbK6l%2BTWK1B2cpSKzpehsLhiP3xy00on9OW26BkJER4WHq4NuzCO4nsgZm8BluSv1ABi9wg4RfNIk5%2BX2Jp%2FyVQqtoLHTYnANiiAY%2BCMjw%2F3LGKDCrTjV90uD5PG1Ybn4SShM9y0zey%2FmqXak6%2BTITAg3VjjEY7g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9rNusKaYw

 

The reason I ask is I purchased a Type 2 above thinking it was the one referred to in Spink and Marsh books but now realize the type 2 is probably a different version? My first shield and was hoping for some input and also value of type 2

[Allgoldcoins]

6 hours ago, JoeBlack said:

I am trying to find more information on the 1861 rotated C in Victoria variety sovereign. Is there any way to check the variants identified. Are there two or more types?

Type 1: The Bentley collection listed one type with a 90 deg clockwise rotation on the "C" which also had an R over R error. The Marsh book pictures this "C" over 90 Deg C as 44B (R2), Spink Book does not show a picture. I have seen several of this version online. 

 

Type 2: Different from the above where the "C" seems inverted 180 deg possibly, all this version I have seen have over stamps on the Victoria V, I and date also a die crack at D in DEI.

 

Also someone selling this second version here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125735351145?hash=item1d46693369:g:gBsAAOSwV0Bjz-qL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwMWOPf1yL%2BY50u1%2B5NRbCLei6CwNWuJ93U%2BKW%2B0yNKhkO%2Bn3oGP2NjZSxMl79%2F7vYyZbTuDy4vtBqVShHxrZj5jM6JL1nUYPvq%2FbK6l%2BTWK1B2cpSKzpehsLhiP3xy00on9OW26BkJER4WHq4NuzCO4nsgZm8BluSv1ABi9wg4RfNIk5%2BX2Jp%2FyVQqtoLHTYnANiiAY%2BCMjw%2F3LGKDCrTjV90uD5PG1Ybn4SShM9y0zey%2FmqXak6%2BTITAg3VjjEY7g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9rNusKaYw

 

The reason I ask is I purchased a Type 2 above thinking it was the one referred to in Spink and Marsh books but now realize the type 2 is probably a different version? My first shield and was hoping for some input and also value of type 2

I had a close look at this (second coin), but I can't confirm it as a C over rotated C TBH, there looks to be overstriking of V - I and C almost back inline with the rest of the letters struck correctly. Although there does appear to be a possible tail on the C it doesn't really suggest that this coin is anything special.

Coin 1 is a classic C over rotated C, and actually quite neat compared to some of the bodge jobs I have seen with these.

[JoeBlack]

2 minutes ago, Allgoldcoins said:

I had a close look at this (second coin), but I can't confirm it as a C over rotated C TBH, there looks to be overstriking of V - I and C almost back inline with the rest of the letters struck correctly. Although there does appear to be a possible tail on the C it doesn't really suggest that this coin is anything special.

Coin 1 is a classic C over rotated C, and actually quite neat compared to some of the bodge jobs I have seen with these.

Thank you for your reply, having the type 2 above now in hand, I do not think its actually a rotated C, which is the only reason I purchased it. londoncoins.co.uk and others are claiming it is. My camera is rubbish so I will see what I can show when the light is better tomorrow but there are a few I took earlier on an old I-phone and the original photo. It seems to look different from every angle

Original

[JoeBlack]

[Allgoldcoins]

13 minutes ago, JoeBlack said:

Thank you for your reply, having the type 2 above now in hand, I do not think its actually a rotated C, which is the only reason I purchased it. londoncoins.co.uk and others are claiming it is. My camera is rubbish so I will see what I can show when the light is better tomorrow but there are a few I took earlier on an old I-phone and the original photo. It seems to look different from every angle

Original

This looks to be C over rotated C, and as you can see quite messy compared to your original type 1 example.

[bazbigfoot]

i have 1860 sov with what looks like Fin DEF has an R under it and D in FID has other thing under it is this normal or rare im a new member and a new sovereign collector and would like advice thanks 

Edited January 7 by bazbigfoot
computer went off when doing original

[morezone]

@bazbigfoot I've merged your topic with an existing thread on errors etc.

[JoeBlack]

Good pictures, I have struggled to get good pictures, any advice?

[bazbigfoot]

microscope joe

[bazbigfoot]

still no advice on errors on this 1860 sovereign , also i have a 1881 sov with no bp are all these errors normal ? also is this a long short or medium tail ? 

[Orpster]

11 minutes ago, bazbigfoot said:

still no advice on errors on this 1860 sovereign , also i have a 1881 sov with no bp are all these errors normal ? also is this a long short or medium tail ? 

I cannot tell from the picture if it is short or long tail, here is one of each to compare

 

[Orpster]

On 07/01/2024 at 14:51, bazbigfoot said:

i have 1860 sov with what looks like Fin DEF has an R under it and D in FID has other thing under it is this normal or rare im a new member and a new sovereign collector and would like advice thanks 

The 1850's and early 1860's are rife with this sort of thing, its a great period for finding mint errors 
They seem to get fewer for London once they start with die numbers, 1863 onwards.

Edited January 15 by Orpster

[Orpster]

Just looking through my pickups from the coin fair, nothing super interesting but I did notice the tops missing from the OR on this 1851

And a poorly struck 5 o this 1855

 

 

[Sovhead]

6 hours ago, Orpster said:

Just looking through my pickups from the coin fair, nothing super interesting but I did notice the tops missing from the OR on this 1851

And a poorly struck 5 o this 1855

 

 

An unbarred A In Gratia bottom coin 👍🏻

[Allgoldcoins]

14 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

An unbarred A In Gratia bottom coin 👍🏻

I don't think so, there looks be bar in both 'A's

[Sovhead]

1 minute ago, Allgoldcoins said:

I don't think so, there looks be bar in both 'A's

No, look at the A in Victoria and the first A in Gratia it’s unbarred.

[Allgoldcoins]

39 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

No, look at the A in Victoria and the first A in Gratia it’s unbarred.

I am sure I can see a weak bar :