sixgun

i am involved in Kinesis - the blockchain gold and silver monetary system. As of this month the 45 000 employees of the Indonesian Post Office are obliged to save in KAU (digital physical gold). Once this has bedded in, it will be rolled out to the 240 odd million Indonesians. There is a tie up with the Malaysian Post Office. The Indonesia Post Office is building ties with the other ASEAN country post offices and the Gulf States. There is a vault Kinesis and the Indonesian government plan to be build in Indonesia. This is just one example of where digital physical gold will play a role in the transfer of value on the blockchain - digital physical gold and silver are a legal/Shari law definition, which means it is not a crypto but it is a blockchain asset. 
Gold and silver are moving forwards. Do you imagine Asians will take fiat or digital physical gold? Fiat has run its course. The usual suspects will try to scare people out of gold and silver. They can sling their hook. Gold is gold - it is real money and most of the world has always believed this.

Let's be realistic. Numerous countries have been buying gold and demanding their gold back. JPM has or is holding on behalf of an entity, the biggest silver stack. These countries are not going to go bankrupt. Why would this happen? Why would gold go to zero?
If many countries hold gold and give it value why should they take any notice of the US which is neck deep in a sh it pit of its own making?
The US Empire is collapsing.
Countries are already using gold in trade. The Shanghai Gold Exchange puts the Comex in the shade. 
What about digital physical gold and silver on the blockchain? What about asset backed crypto?
Even when gold coins were no longer circulating, countries still held gold. Even when the dollar was no longer exchangeable for gold, countries still held gold.
Gold is gold - JP Morgan - "Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"

Let's be realistic. Numerous countries have been buying gold and demanding their gold back. JPM has or is holding on behalf of an entity, the biggest silver stack. These countries are not going to go bankrupt. Why would this happen? Why would gold go to zero?
If many countries hold gold and give it value why should they take any notice of the US which is neck deep in a sh it pit of its own making?
The US Empire is collapsing.
Countries are already using gold in trade. The Shanghai Gold Exchange puts the Comex in the shade. 
What about digital physical gold and silver on the blockchain? What about asset backed crypto?
Even when gold coins were no longer circulating, countries still held gold. Even when the dollar was no longer exchangeable for gold, countries still held gold.
Gold is gold - JP Morgan - "Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"

That must be why Russia, China et al are stacking gold - for when it drops 90% in value. Thanks for telling us.

Gold investors are not going to be in a world of pain from deflation. In a worse case scenario the fiat value of gold might decline but the purchasing power with be preserved. If your gold buys you 3 sheep and a sack of corn, it will likely still buy to 3 sheep and a sack of corn in a time of deflation. Gold is not primarily about making a fiat profit b/c most of us 'invest' in gold with the mindset that fiat is depreciating and will ultimately be worthless. So we swap out fiat for gold so we preserve the value we have. With a bit of luck that value will appreciate b/c gold and especially silver are undervalued.
If gold goes to $50k an ounce that implies fiat has become almost worthless - $50k simply becomes a number, it might as well be $50 million or billion.

A judgement by the late Lord Denning held that a Bill of Exchange, once tendered, shall be treated as cash . . .
The principle being a bill, cheque or [promissory] note is given and taken in payment as so much cash....

i uncovered this post as it appeared as a recent post on the front of the website.
The money supply can increase with there being no inflation if the GDP increases inline with the money supply.
So let's imagine some fictional numbers and dates but let's imagine the 1800 USA - the money supply is $50 million and inflation is 1%
Now let's imagine 1900 USA the money supply is $1 billion and the money velocity is the same. The money supply is 20 x higher.
What if i were to say the inflation is still 1%.
How could that be? The money supply is 20 x higher!
By Wonger logic inflation would be massively higher. But sixgun will point out from his armchair that the GDP of 1900 USA is 20x larger - the GDP and money supply have moved up symmetrically and money velocity has stayed the same - so no inflation.

Wonker fails again - tripping over his boot laces, he scores another own goal in the village under 12's Sunday football league game. Poor Wonker.

But Wonky - inflation is not a function of money velocity according to you. So if it is not a function of velocity, then how come you just said inflation cannot be measured when money velocity is zero?
i did not fall on my sword - i ran you through with it - figuratively you are now a dead man.
i had misconfigured my ignore of the Winker - i was letting posts through. i have corrected my error - silence is golden. i can now rest comfortably in my armchair without the annoyance of a yapping dog.

https://thismatter.com/money/banking/money-growth-money-velocity-inflation.htm
The formulae are laid out in the referenced webpage article.
Clearly for the Wanger it can[not] easily be seen....

The argument being put forward by the Wonger is that prices cannot rise until and unless there is more currency to support those higher prices. 
So if the amount of currency in circulation is fixed, if one price goes up, others must go down. 
He ignores money velocity.

Following the 2007/08 financial crisis the Fed went into several rounds of QE and dropped interest rates. 
Gold is real money and as such is a zero risk asset. Gold is gold - it has no liabilities. When you hold physical gold it cannot be defaulted on. A company might go bust and its shares become worthless, a government or corporation might default on their bonds - but gold is gold.

If you listen to Ned Naylor-Layland, who in my estimation is a proper gold/silver expert, he is at pains to point out that the price of gold is determined by what fiat and bonds are worth and what the market thinks they will be worth in the future. So what we are looking at is purchasing power and real interest rates - the difference between the headline interest rate and inflation.

The falling interest rates following the financial crisis and the spectre of massive QE indicated to the market that real interest rates would be very low - as a result the price of gold and silver went up.

As it was, the published inflation rates did not shoot up. What happened was this new currency from QE did not enter the general circulation. It sat on and propped up bank balance sheets - it did not appear on Main Street. There wasn't more cash in circulation and prices did not go up.
What happened in effect was this new money sat on balance sheets and was not lent out - it had zero velocity. If cash is hidden under the mattress and never comes out it might as well not exist. If people hoard and do not spend their cash, it might as well not exist. It has zero velocity, it cannot contribute to the economy or cause inflation. There is often an assumption that money velocity is a constant and so more cash pushed out will lead to more inflation and less cash will result in deflation. This is not necessarily the case. 

Currency that is circulating 10 x a day purchases 10 x as much as the same amount of currency that circulates once a day. 
Prices can go up with the same amount of currency if its velocity is higher.
When people stop spending, you may well see prices start to fall as sellers drop their prices. No-one is buying - their cash is under the mattress. This is not because there is less currency in the system, it is because the velocity of money has dropped. 
There is a view that there is a dollar shortage. That a large amount of debt held in the world is denominated in dollars. A lot of this is in the Euro-Dollar system. Dollars created outside the US, outside the control of the Fed - some people say this is what is the actual world reserve currency. How many Euro dollars there are is not clear but estimates i have heard are around $12 trillion. The thesis is there are not enough dollars to pay this off and as borrowers go chasing dollars, the value of the dollar will get bought up and up against other currencies. This is the Dollar Milk Shake Theory of Brent Johnson. 

Now it does seem there is a shortage of dollars - but what will happen is foreigners will sell dollar denominated assets such as Treasuries. The demand for Treasuries outside the US, which is low as it is, will evaporate. US stocks held by foreigners will get sold off. All to raise dollars. These dollars all end up back in the US - more currency in circulation which will likely end up causing inflation. US stocks and other bonds sold off. The world will divest dollar assets and de-dollarisation will accelerate. There is already increasing real world de-dollarisation going on, where trade does not involve US entities, payments will avoids the dollar. 
The outcome is not good for the US. Products and services in the US would become overpriced. As USD assets are divested and dollars come back home, inflation takes off. Steps would be needed to devalue the dollar. To fill the dollar shortage. The Fed is and would do currency swaps - putting dollars out into the world in exchange for other currencies. What is different from 2008 is that currency is not just sitting on bank balance sheets. It is being paid out to people. The US Treasury has a cash account at the Fed which normally had around $400 billion in - this balance recently grew to $1.45 billion - it is now being spent. It sits there to be spent into the circulation. It is likely this account will be topped up. This will cause inflation as we see the US economy rapidly shrinking - GDP falling heavily. The US government is splashing the cash in support cheques - a helicopter money - i expect there will be more splashing with the recent riots. More cash in circulation with falling GDP. This is by definition - inflation.
There are deflationary and inflationary forces in play. Central banks really, really hate deflation. In all this turmoil there is real money. i go with real money.
There is another factor which of course will not get officially discussed and that is the missing money - the money stolen away. The Missing $21 trillion that the US Department of Defence and the Department of Housing and Urban Development cannot account for. Catherine Austin Fitts talks about this a lot.  i have heard there is another $10 trillion missing. There is probably more cash that has been sequestered. At some point this will reappear - it will enter the system. When and how is anyone's guess. It is not going to sit in the Cayman Islands or Jersey or wherever forever. That is a lot of wongo to reappear. It would be hard for that not to be inflationary.  

The argument being put forward by the Wonger is that prices cannot rise until and unless there is more currency to support those higher prices. 
So if the amount of currency in circulation is fixed, if one price goes up, others must go down. 
He ignores money velocity.

Following the 2007/08 financial crisis the Fed went into several rounds of QE and dropped interest rates. 
Gold is real money and as such is a zero risk asset. Gold is gold - it has no liabilities. When you hold physical gold it cannot be defaulted on. A company might go bust and its shares become worthless, a government or corporation might default on their bonds - but gold is gold.

If you listen to Ned Naylor-Layland, who in my estimation is a proper gold/silver expert, he is at pains to point out that the price of gold is determined by what fiat and bonds are worth and what the market thinks they will be worth in the future. So what we are looking at is purchasing power and real interest rates - the difference between the headline interest rate and inflation.

The falling interest rates following the financial crisis and the spectre of massive QE indicated to the market that real interest rates would be very low - as a result the price of gold and silver went up.

As it was, the published inflation rates did not shoot up. What happened was this new currency from QE did not enter the general circulation. It sat on and propped up bank balance sheets - it did not appear on Main Street. There wasn't more cash in circulation and prices did not go up.
What happened in effect was this new money sat on balance sheets and was not lent out - it had zero velocity. If cash is hidden under the mattress and never comes out it might as well not exist. If people hoard and do not spend their cash, it might as well not exist. It has zero velocity, it cannot contribute to the economy or cause inflation. There is often an assumption that money velocity is a constant and so more cash pushed out will lead to more inflation and less cash will result in deflation. This is not necessarily the case. 

Currency that is circulating 10 x a day purchases 10 x as much as the same amount of currency that circulates once a day. 
Prices can go up with the same amount of currency if its velocity is higher.
When people stop spending, you may well see prices start to fall as sellers drop their prices. No-one is buying - their cash is under the mattress. This is not because there is less currency in the system, it is because the velocity of money has dropped. 
There is a view that there is a dollar shortage. That a large amount of debt held in the world is denominated in dollars. A lot of this is in the Euro-Dollar system. Dollars created outside the US, outside the control of the Fed - some people say this is what is the actual world reserve currency. How many Euro dollars there are is not clear but estimates i have heard are around $12 trillion. The thesis is there are not enough dollars to pay this off and as borrowers go chasing dollars, the value of the dollar will get bought up and up against other currencies. This is the Dollar Milk Shake Theory of Brent Johnson. 

Now it does seem there is a shortage of dollars - but what will happen is foreigners will sell dollar denominated assets such as Treasuries. The demand for Treasuries outside the US, which is low as it is, will evaporate. US stocks held by foreigners will get sold off. All to raise dollars. These dollars all end up back in the US - more currency in circulation which will likely end up causing inflation. US stocks and other bonds sold off. The world will divest dollar assets and de-dollarisation will accelerate. There is already increasing real world de-dollarisation going on, where trade does not involve US entities, payments will avoids the dollar. 
The outcome is not good for the US. Products and services in the US would become overpriced. As USD assets are divested and dollars come back home, inflation takes off. Steps would be needed to devalue the dollar. To fill the dollar shortage. The Fed is and would do currency swaps - putting dollars out into the world in exchange for other currencies. What is different from 2008 is that currency is not just sitting on bank balance sheets. It is being paid out to people. The US Treasury has a cash account at the Fed which normally had around $400 billion in - this balance recently grew to $1.45 billion - it is now being spent. It sits there to be spent into the circulation. It is likely this account will be topped up. This will cause inflation as we see the US economy rapidly shrinking - GDP falling heavily. The US government is splashing the cash in support cheques - a helicopter money - i expect there will be more splashing with the recent riots. More cash in circulation with falling GDP. This is by definition - inflation.
There are deflationary and inflationary forces in play. Central banks really, really hate deflation. In all this turmoil there is real money. i go with real money.
There is another factor which of course will not get officially discussed and that is the missing money - the money stolen away. The Missing $21 trillion that the US Department of Defence and the Department of Housing and Urban Development cannot account for. Catherine Austin Fitts talks about this a lot.  i have heard there is another $10 trillion missing. There is probably more cash that has been sequestered. At some point this will reappear - it will enter the system. When and how is anyone's guess. It is not going to sit in the Cayman Islands or Jersey or wherever forever. That is a lot of wongo to reappear. It would be hard for that not to be inflationary.  

The argument being put forward by the Wonger is that prices cannot rise until and unless there is more currency to support those higher prices. 
So if the amount of currency in circulation is fixed, if one price goes up, others must go down. 
He ignores money velocity.

Following the 2007/08 financial crisis the Fed went into several rounds of QE and dropped interest rates. 
Gold is real money and as such is a zero risk asset. Gold is gold - it has no liabilities. When you hold physical gold it cannot be defaulted on. A company might go bust and its shares become worthless, a government or corporation might default on their bonds - but gold is gold.

If you listen to Ned Naylor-Layland, who in my estimation is a proper gold/silver expert, he is at pains to point out that the price of gold is determined by what fiat and bonds are worth and what the market thinks they will be worth in the future. So what we are looking at is purchasing power and real interest rates - the difference between the headline interest rate and inflation.

The falling interest rates following the financial crisis and the spectre of massive QE indicated to the market that real interest rates would be very low - as a result the price of gold and silver went up.

As it was, the published inflation rates did not shoot up. What happened was this new currency from QE did not enter the general circulation. It sat on and propped up bank balance sheets - it did not appear on Main Street. There wasn't more cash in circulation and prices did not go up.
What happened in effect was this new money sat on balance sheets and was not lent out - it had zero velocity. If cash is hidden under the mattress and never comes out it might as well not exist. If people hoard and do not spend their cash, it might as well not exist. It has zero velocity, it cannot contribute to the economy or cause inflation. There is often an assumption that money velocity is a constant and so more cash pushed out will lead to more inflation and less cash will result in deflation. This is not necessarily the case. 

Currency that is circulating 10 x a day purchases 10 x as much as the same amount of currency that circulates once a day. 
Prices can go up with the same amount of currency if its velocity is higher.
When people stop spending, you may well see prices start to fall as sellers drop their prices. No-one is buying - their cash is under the mattress. This is not because there is less currency in the system, it is because the velocity of money has dropped. 
There is a view that there is a dollar shortage. That a large amount of debt held in the world is denominated in dollars. A lot of this is in the Euro-Dollar system. Dollars created outside the US, outside the control of the Fed - some people say this is what is the actual world reserve currency. How many Euro dollars there are is not clear but estimates i have heard are around $12 trillion. The thesis is there are not enough dollars to pay this off and as borrowers go chasing dollars, the value of the dollar will get bought up and up against other currencies. This is the Dollar Milk Shake Theory of Brent Johnson. 

Now it does seem there is a shortage of dollars - but what will happen is foreigners will sell dollar denominated assets such as Treasuries. The demand for Treasuries outside the US, which is low as it is, will evaporate. US stocks held by foreigners will get sold off. All to raise dollars. These dollars all end up back in the US - more currency in circulation which will likely end up causing inflation. US stocks and other bonds sold off. The world will divest dollar assets and de-dollarisation will accelerate. There is already increasing real world de-dollarisation going on, where trade does not involve US entities, payments will avoids the dollar. 
The outcome is not good for the US. Products and services in the US would become overpriced. As USD assets are divested and dollars come back home, inflation takes off. Steps would be needed to devalue the dollar. To fill the dollar shortage. The Fed is and would do currency swaps - putting dollars out into the world in exchange for other currencies. What is different from 2008 is that currency is not just sitting on bank balance sheets. It is being paid out to people. The US Treasury has a cash account at the Fed which normally had around $400 billion in - this balance recently grew to $1.45 billion - it is now being spent. It sits there to be spent into the circulation. It is likely this account will be topped up. This will cause inflation as we see the US economy rapidly shrinking - GDP falling heavily. The US government is splashing the cash in support cheques - a helicopter money - i expect there will be more splashing with the recent riots. More cash in circulation with falling GDP. This is by definition - inflation.
There are deflationary and inflationary forces in play. Central banks really, really hate deflation. In all this turmoil there is real money. i go with real money.
There is another factor which of course will not get officially discussed and that is the missing money - the money stolen away. The Missing $21 trillion that the US Department of Defence and the Department of Housing and Urban Development cannot account for. Catherine Austin Fitts talks about this a lot.  i have heard there is another $10 trillion missing. There is probably more cash that has been sequestered. At some point this will reappear - it will enter the system. When and how is anyone's guess. It is not going to sit in the Cayman Islands or Jersey or wherever forever. That is a lot of wongo to reappear. It would be hard for that not to be inflationary.  

Just this week i took Wongo off ignore - now look what happened. 😖 
Back on ignore.

That's right.
https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/coins-we-grade/white-spots/
 

Hmmm the ignore system not working at the moment - i got notified of a reply from Mr Wong. 
i suppose it is your posts that do it Wonker - that is why i put you on ignore - then i took you off a couple of days ago b/c i thought you had calmed down but clearly you still aren't taking all your tablets.
 

Hmmm the ignore system not working at the moment - i got notified of a reply from Mr Wong. 
i suppose it is your posts that do it Wonker - that is why i put you on ignore - then i took you off a couple of days ago b/c i thought you had calmed down but clearly you still aren't taking all your tablets.
 

What about the velocity of the currency Wongie-baby? What if the currency velocity increased? 

Wonger points to the concentration of shorts in the hands of the usual suspects - that they always win. 
Today a LBMA market maker hit the buffers due to shorts in the OTC market. It is suspected this is UBS that is in trouble. They are in trouble due to their shorts.
Miners and closing - refiners are closing - there is a shortage in the retail market - interest in gold and silver is ramping up - interest in holding physical. There is no Brown's Bottom to bail them out it is simply more paper but the rush is into physical.
When Wonger started his silver thread he made out silver would go to $4 - it didn't. The situation in favour of price rising is even stronger. 
Wonger says he has been short today - he is underwater. Perhaps JMP and Goldmans will throw him a lifeline. 

People of the forum are looking for physical gold and silver. We don't give a flying f*ck what JPM and Goldmans are doing - there isn't a lot of physical around, so if JPM and Goldman could flood the market with physical that would be great - but they won't - they are doing the same as us - stacking physical. We are on the same side.

Oh Wongie-baby - 💋💋💋💋💋

What about the velocity of the currency Wongie-baby? What if the currency velocity increased? 

The wheat crop fails - there is only chaff. The price of wheat quadruples. The farmer increases the price b/c the supply of wheat decreases. 
Do farmers have to get permission from the banks to put up prices?

Do not diss the Wonger - he has 15 thousand years of trading experience and Wonger say he go down hard. 
Nuff said.
love Wonger 💋💋

Oh Wongie-baby - 💋💋💋💋💋

@Wonger 
What company/companies have you worked for over the last 20 odd years ? You need to show credentials to be taken seriously.
Did you work in The City or some such place ? Are you a member of The City of London Club ? Or are you just another ten a penny (dime a dozen trader for our US friends) trader  ?
 
Until you provide actual credibility, you are just another snake oil salesman with charts and a big mouth. I am not saying you will be right or wrong, as I cannot possibly know the future either. My experience hs been over many decades to be wary of flashes in the pan or johnny come latelies. It has served me well over more than half a century.