LawrenceChard

The name Gold & Silver Bureau rang a bell, and with a negative connotation. A quick Google search turned up:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/money-opinion/p-s-investigates/a-right-coinman-533667 from August 2002.
I can remember seeing John Coppin's adverts in Exchange and Mart way back in the 1960s, and at that time assumed he was a straight dealer. It seems that some time later, he got greedy or desperate, possibly both. 
He expanded and set up at least one high profile business, Gold & Silver Bureau being one of them, employing a large staff of telesales people. His businesses failed and defaulted more than once, owing customers large amounts of money. G&SB was based in Ilford, Essex. Coppin lived in Chigwell, Essex.
When he and his companies finally left the scene, a number of his previous employees set up similar but smaller businesses, in and around the Essex area. I seem to remember some of them using prestigious sounding London postal addresses.
Although we have dealt with at least one of these some years ago, none of them appeared to have had much numismatic knowledge or interest, their main skills appeared to be in salemanship. None of them ever impressed me as having great integrity.
I can't give any meaningful opinion on their certificate.

Yes I would agree. However at the time I wasn't to know whether this audit trail would remain forever or at least until the time I wanted to sell.
I decided that the Douro provenance wasn't important to me so I assessed my holding the coins on their merits alone. I decided to take the Douro link premium and sell while the provenance was still there.
As I didn't pay any Duoro premium when I bought, you could say I took the profit when I could😉

The Coinworld article is informative, I think I remember reading it before,
The NGC page also makes sense, mainly.
So, shipwreck sovereigns are likely to be unharmed by their immersion in salt water, and most will have remained in the conditon they were when their ship sank.
At the time, we did not participate in any of the Douro auctions, but not for any particular reason, and we were busy in any case.
Whenever there is a big coin hoard, or wreck recovery, there is always plenty of publicity, and a degree of hype. 
There are effects on both supply and demand. Suddenly there is a greater than normal supply on the market, but also greater interest stimulated by the publicity.
The increased supply can depress prices, whereas the increased interest can increase them.
For the collector who is nore interested in acquiring something "new", it might not matter if he pays a premium price. For others, ther might be the opportunity to grab a few bargains.
The "Douro", or other wreck / hoard provenance will usually remain with the coins, which can never be a bad thing.
My view, when wearing my dealer's hat, is to buy and value the coin on its own merits, rather than because it is from a particular source.
When it comes to selling, I might just be tempted to allow the provenance to add some value, though!

Thanks for the shout out, but it should go to our staff.
We closed our showroom to the public last week, before the government order, and out of a full team of about 18, we have just 3 or 4 in the office, picking, packing, and shipping orders, receiving deliveries.
Five are working from home multi-tasking around childcare.
Some staff have been starting work at 6 a.m.; others answering e-mails until 10.30 p.m.
We managed to provide all or most home-workers with a notebook PC and a company mobile.
Installed a new IP based telephone system.
We did fail to answer over 90% of the 300 per hour incoming telephone calls late last week though. Must try harder!
We provided all our staff with high quality masks. I am still appalled that most supermarkets and other nationwide shops have failed to provide masks for their staff, and as for NHS staff not having PPE before now, it is incomprehensible. W.H.O. issued a major epidemic alert as early as 31st January. Our leaders have no reasonable excuse. (End of rant).
We also added more software and back-office system upgrades last week than in a normal month.

The Coinworld article is informative, I think I remember reading it before,
The NGC page also makes sense, mainly.
So, shipwreck sovereigns are likely to be unharmed by their immersion in salt water, and most will have remained in the conditon they were when their ship sank.
At the time, we did not participate in any of the Douro auctions, but not for any particular reason, and we were busy in any case.
Whenever there is a big coin hoard, or wreck recovery, there is always plenty of publicity, and a degree of hype. 
There are effects on both supply and demand. Suddenly there is a greater than normal supply on the market, but also greater interest stimulated by the publicity.
The increased supply can depress prices, whereas the increased interest can increase them.
For the collector who is nore interested in acquiring something "new", it might not matter if he pays a premium price. For others, ther might be the opportunity to grab a few bargains.
The "Douro", or other wreck / hoard provenance will usually remain with the coins, which can never be a bad thing.
My view, when wearing my dealer's hat, is to buy and value the coin on its own merits, rather than because it is from a particular source.
When it comes to selling, I might just be tempted to allow the provenance to add some value, though!

The name Gold & Silver Bureau rang a bell, and with a negative connotation. A quick Google search turned up:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/money-opinion/p-s-investigates/a-right-coinman-533667 from August 2002.
I can remember seeing John Coppin's adverts in Exchange and Mart way back in the 1960s, and at that time assumed he was a straight dealer. It seems that some time later, he got greedy or desperate, possibly both. 
He expanded and set up at least one high profile business, Gold & Silver Bureau being one of them, employing a large staff of telesales people. His businesses failed and defaulted more than once, owing customers large amounts of money. G&SB was based in Ilford, Essex. Coppin lived in Chigwell, Essex.
When he and his companies finally left the scene, a number of his previous employees set up similar but smaller businesses, in and around the Essex area. I seem to remember some of them using prestigious sounding London postal addresses.
Although we have dealt with at least one of these some years ago, none of them appeared to have had much numismatic knowledge or interest, their main skills appeared to be in salemanship. None of them ever impressed me as having great integrity.
I can't give any meaningful opinion on their certificate.

The Coinworld article is informative, I think I remember reading it before,
The NGC page also makes sense, mainly.
So, shipwreck sovereigns are likely to be unharmed by their immersion in salt water, and most will have remained in the conditon they were when their ship sank.
At the time, we did not participate in any of the Douro auctions, but not for any particular reason, and we were busy in any case.
Whenever there is a big coin hoard, or wreck recovery, there is always plenty of publicity, and a degree of hype. 
There are effects on both supply and demand. Suddenly there is a greater than normal supply on the market, but also greater interest stimulated by the publicity.
The increased supply can depress prices, whereas the increased interest can increase them.
For the collector who is nore interested in acquiring something "new", it might not matter if he pays a premium price. For others, ther might be the opportunity to grab a few bargains.
The "Douro", or other wreck / hoard provenance will usually remain with the coins, which can never be a bad thing.
My view, when wearing my dealer's hat, is to buy and value the coin on its own merits, rather than because it is from a particular source.
When it comes to selling, I might just be tempted to allow the provenance to add some value, though!

The Coinworld article is informative, I think I remember reading it before,
The NGC page also makes sense, mainly.
So, shipwreck sovereigns are likely to be unharmed by their immersion in salt water, and most will have remained in the conditon they were when their ship sank.
At the time, we did not participate in any of the Douro auctions, but not for any particular reason, and we were busy in any case.
Whenever there is a big coin hoard, or wreck recovery, there is always plenty of publicity, and a degree of hype. 
There are effects on both supply and demand. Suddenly there is a greater than normal supply on the market, but also greater interest stimulated by the publicity.
The increased supply can depress prices, whereas the increased interest can increase them.
For the collector who is nore interested in acquiring something "new", it might not matter if he pays a premium price. For others, ther might be the opportunity to grab a few bargains.
The "Douro", or other wreck / hoard provenance will usually remain with the coins, which can never be a bad thing.
My view, when wearing my dealer's hat, is to buy and value the coin on its own merits, rather than because it is from a particular source.
When it comes to selling, I might just be tempted to allow the provenance to add some value, though!

The name Gold & Silver Bureau rang a bell, and with a negative connotation. A quick Google search turned up:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/money-opinion/p-s-investigates/a-right-coinman-533667 from August 2002.
I can remember seeing John Coppin's adverts in Exchange and Mart way back in the 1960s, and at that time assumed he was a straight dealer. It seems that some time later, he got greedy or desperate, possibly both. 
He expanded and set up at least one high profile business, Gold & Silver Bureau being one of them, employing a large staff of telesales people. His businesses failed and defaulted more than once, owing customers large amounts of money. G&SB was based in Ilford, Essex. Coppin lived in Chigwell, Essex.
When he and his companies finally left the scene, a number of his previous employees set up similar but smaller businesses, in and around the Essex area. I seem to remember some of them using prestigious sounding London postal addresses.
Although we have dealt with at least one of these some years ago, none of them appeared to have had much numismatic knowledge or interest, their main skills appeared to be in salemanship. None of them ever impressed me as having great integrity.
I can't give any meaningful opinion on their certificate.

Auction lot numbers and receipts have always been good evidence of provenance, particularly if the lot was illustrated. Also helpful if you have a copy of the catalogue. In recent years online auction records and archives have made this easier.

The name Gold & Silver Bureau rang a bell, and with a negative connotation. A quick Google search turned up:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/money-opinion/p-s-investigates/a-right-coinman-533667 from August 2002.
I can remember seeing John Coppin's adverts in Exchange and Mart way back in the 1960s, and at that time assumed he was a straight dealer. It seems that some time later, he got greedy or desperate, possibly both. 
He expanded and set up at least one high profile business, Gold & Silver Bureau being one of them, employing a large staff of telesales people. His businesses failed and defaulted more than once, owing customers large amounts of money. G&SB was based in Ilford, Essex. Coppin lived in Chigwell, Essex.
When he and his companies finally left the scene, a number of his previous employees set up similar but smaller businesses, in and around the Essex area. I seem to remember some of them using prestigious sounding London postal addresses.
Although we have dealt with at least one of these some years ago, none of them appeared to have had much numismatic knowledge or interest, their main skills appeared to be in salemanship. None of them ever impressed me as having great integrity.
I can't give any meaningful opinion on their certificate.

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

Thanks for the shout out, but it should go to our staff.
We closed our showroom to the public last week, before the government order, and out of a full team of about 18, we have just 3 or 4 in the office, picking, packing, and shipping orders, receiving deliveries.
Five are working from home multi-tasking around childcare.
Some staff have been starting work at 6 a.m.; others answering e-mails until 10.30 p.m.
We managed to provide all or most home-workers with a notebook PC and a company mobile.
Installed a new IP based telephone system.
We did fail to answer over 90% of the 300 per hour incoming telephone calls late last week though. Must try harder!
We provided all our staff with high quality masks. I am still appalled that most supermarkets and other nationwide shops have failed to provide masks for their staff, and as for NHS staff not having PPE before now, it is incomprehensible. W.H.O. issued a major epidemic alert as early as 31st January. Our leaders have no reasonable excuse. (End of rant).
We also added more software and back-office system upgrades last week than in a normal month.

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

Thanks for the shout out, but it should go to our staff.
We closed our showroom to the public last week, before the government order, and out of a full team of about 18, we have just 3 or 4 in the office, picking, packing, and shipping orders, receiving deliveries.
Five are working from home multi-tasking around childcare.
Some staff have been starting work at 6 a.m.; others answering e-mails until 10.30 p.m.
We managed to provide all or most home-workers with a notebook PC and a company mobile.
Installed a new IP based telephone system.
We did fail to answer over 90% of the 300 per hour incoming telephone calls late last week though. Must try harder!
We provided all our staff with high quality masks. I am still appalled that most supermarkets and other nationwide shops have failed to provide masks for their staff, and as for NHS staff not having PPE before now, it is incomprehensible. W.H.O. issued a major epidemic alert as early as 31st January. Our leaders have no reasonable excuse. (End of rant).
We also added more software and back-office system upgrades last week than in a normal month.

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

UK Tower of London £5 BU
 

A quick reckoning:
40 1470 0.0272108844 that is €40 premium, divided by €1470 spot = about 2.7% premium.
We always prefer and advise to use percentage premium, because it makes comparison quicker and easier, across different currencies, and different coins with different weights.
today 2.7% is quite cheap, but not outstanding.
A month ago, it would have probably looked expensive, premiums for physically available bullion have increased in the past fortnight. This probably explains why you are seing some Krugers at €1600 (about 9% premium), the vendors hope there are panic buyers out there who will pay any silly price.
I looked at our current pricing on Krugers, although we don't have any in stock for immediate delivery:
 
Quantity Premium % Price Per Item Total Est UK Delivery 1 3.1 £1,348.62 £1,348.62 £6.00 2 2.8 £1,344.70 £2,689.40 £7.00 5 2.75 £1,344.04 £6,720.20 £10.00 10 2.7 £1,343.39 £13,433.90 £14.00 25 2.65 £1,342.73 £33,568.25 £33.00 50 2.6 £1,342.08 £67,104.00 £70.60 100 2.55 £1,341.43 £134,143.00 £115.60 500+ 2.5 £1,340.77 £670,385.00 £487.20 We have slightly better prices for "one ounce gold secondary market our choice"
About a month ago, before it all kicked off, we had Krugers from 1.0% to about 1.9% premium depending on quantity, and from 0.9% on "one ounce gold secondary market our choice". We do this, or similar, when we judge that we have surplus stock, or if we think spot price is on the high side.
We do make an extra charge for picking dates, but that is more for the service than anything else.
 
 

A quick reckoning:
40 1470 0.0272108844 that is €40 premium, divided by €1470 spot = about 2.7% premium.
We always prefer and advise to use percentage premium, because it makes comparison quicker and easier, across different currencies, and different coins with different weights.
today 2.7% is quite cheap, but not outstanding.
A month ago, it would have probably looked expensive, premiums for physically available bullion have increased in the past fortnight. This probably explains why you are seing some Krugers at €1600 (about 9% premium), the vendors hope there are panic buyers out there who will pay any silly price.
I looked at our current pricing on Krugers, although we don't have any in stock for immediate delivery:
 
Quantity Premium % Price Per Item Total Est UK Delivery 1 3.1 £1,348.62 £1,348.62 £6.00 2 2.8 £1,344.70 £2,689.40 £7.00 5 2.75 £1,344.04 £6,720.20 £10.00 10 2.7 £1,343.39 £13,433.90 £14.00 25 2.65 £1,342.73 £33,568.25 £33.00 50 2.6 £1,342.08 £67,104.00 £70.60 100 2.55 £1,341.43 £134,143.00 £115.60 500+ 2.5 £1,340.77 £670,385.00 £487.20 We have slightly better prices for "one ounce gold secondary market our choice"
About a month ago, before it all kicked off, we had Krugers from 1.0% to about 1.9% premium depending on quantity, and from 0.9% on "one ounce gold secondary market our choice". We do this, or similar, when we judge that we have surplus stock, or if we think spot price is on the high side.
We do make an extra charge for picking dates, but that is more for the service than anything else.