2017 5 Sovereign Proof & Bu Comparison

[richatthecroft]

Nothing better to do whilst recovering from man- flu.  

On a recent sales post a debate arose surrounding the merits of the Deep Proof Like 2017 Five Sovereign Piece (992 mintage) and the 2017 Proof Sovereign (749 mintage).

Some (not great) photos I have taken of both of them to compare and contrast.

In hand, and to my eyes, there’s a marked difference.  What do you think?

[SovereignBull]

TY for posting this. I have an opportunity to acquire a BU quintuple 2017 5 Sov so will be giving this post my full attention when my work day is over!

[sovereignsteve]

To my eyes the dies look the same, just differences in frosting and slight colour.

Both equally beautiful.

[Coverte]

I now have a pair of the brilliant uncirculated in storage, never tried or been offered the proofs, just took what came along at what seemed a decent prices at those times.

I'll try and get a photo of them side by side one day FWIW, neither have been out of capsules according to both original buyers and I studied them pretty hard before payment.

They are really nice - just hope the next generation appreciate it .......... 🤔

[James32]

Side by side there's a difference in the frosting for sure.

[1stsovereign]

6 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

Nothing better to do whilst recovering from man- flu.  

On a recent sales post a debate arose surrounding the merits of the Deep Proof Like 2017 Five Sovereign Piece (992 mintage) and the 2017 Proof Sovereign (749 mintage).

Some (not great) photos I have taken of both of them to compare and contrast.

In hand, and to my eyes, there’s a marked difference.  What do you think?

FYI: There has been many PCGS graded £5 as proofs - however they have been wrongly graded so buyers be aware! 

[Coverte]

2 minutes ago, 1stsovereign said:

FYI: There has been many PCGS graded £5 as proofs - however they have been wrongly graded so buyers be aware! 

Helpful - thank you.

[Stuntman]

The difference is more noticeable on the obverse in my opinion.  Less so on the reverse.

I have the BU version (in original RM packaging and the coin has remained in the capsule) and it's still my absolute favourite gold coin, aesthetically.

[richatthecroft]

4 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

To my eyes the dies look the same, just differences in frosting and slight colour.

Both equally beautiful.

Agreed Steve, the dies used, look to be  the same and both types are wonderful.  Clearly, the Obverse of the 5 Sovereign Piece gives it away as a Bu coin- the photos above flatter it, as it appears there is a degree of Cameo when actually there isn’t.  

Same with the Reverse, the 5 Sovereign Piece is once again flattered in the photos I have taken, in hand, the frosting much weaker than it’s Proof counterpart, and a marked difference in terms of the lack of definition and detail of the Garter, lack of frosting to the Rim, and no frosting to the lettering.  @Coverte’s idea of taking side by side photos of his Bu issues would be useful, as perhaps there might be some nuances between coins, perhaps some having a degree of frosting to the Obverse? And a deeper Cameo to the Reverse?

 

 

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, 1stsovereign said:

FYI: There has been many PCGS graded £5 as proofs - however they have been wrongly graded so buyers be aware! 

Thanks Adrian.  It’s unbelievable and unforgivable that fundamental mistakes are made by third party grading companies, particularly with modern coins- I wonder if there are any uninitiated collectors out there who have paid  Proof prices for a mislabeled Bu slabbed coin. 

[SlowFrog]

10 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Thanks Adrian.  It’s unbelievable and unforgivable that fundamental mistakes are made by third party grading companies, particularly with modern coins- I wonder if there are any uninitiated collectors out there who have paid  Proof prices for a mislabeled Bu slabbed coin. 

I'd wager so if PCGS have made such a grave error. It hardly instils confidence, does it? I'm not saying I'd want this, but I am curious if they could be held legally accountable for mislabelling such a coin when the price difference is so significant. If there's no accountability then one could argue that it'd be a great way to run a scam - especially if it isn't a one off. 

Edited February 2 by SlowFrog

[richatthecroft]

19 minutes ago, SlowFrog said:

I'd wager so if PCGS have made such a grave error. It hardly instils confidence, does it? I'm not saying I'd want this, but I am curious if they could be held legally accountable for mislabelling such a coin when the price difference is so significant. If there's no accountability then one could argue that it'd be a great way to run a scam - especially if it isn't a one off. 

Mistakes are frequently made by these companies- I once had a 1/4oz Gold Proof Mexićo Libertad returned to the person who submitted it on my behalf attributed as a GB 50p coin!  Likely the  submission form was filled in incorrectly- but you are correct- its easily plausible that a scam could be possible, by unscrupulous people making fraudulent entries on the submission form and the corresponding coin making it through the Grading process in agreement with the submitters entry on the sheet.  It might sound far- fetched, but  I read an article describing that the mechanised process of these companies allows only a few seconds of appraisal by a Grader prior to a judgment being made.  
 

Edited February 2 by richatthecroft

[sovereignsteve]

17 hours ago, SlowFrog said:

I'd wager so if PCGS have made such a grave error. It hardly instils confidence, does it? I'm not saying I'd want this, but I am curious if they could be held legally accountable for mislabelling such a coin when the price difference is so significant. If there's no accountability then one could argue that it'd be a great way to run a scam - especially if it isn't a one off. 

They do or did give a guarantee of some sorts in connection to any errors they make. It could be if they falsely grade a counterfeit rather than this situation. Would be interesting to challenge them on this though, seeing as someone who bought based on their label will have suffered loss.

[Coverte]

On 02/02/2024 at 19:35, richatthecroft said:

Agreed Steve, the dies used, look to be  the same and both types are wonderful.  Clearly, the Obverse of the 5 Sovereign Piece gives it away as a Bu coin- the photos above flatter it, as it appears there is a degree of Cameo when actually there isn’t.  

Same with the Reverse, the 5 Sovereign Piece is once again flattered in the photos I have taken, in hand, the frosting much weaker than it’s Proof counterpart, and a marked difference in terms of the lack of definition and detail of the Garter, lack of frosting to the Rim, and no frosting to the lettering.  @Coverte’s idea of taking side by side photos of his Bu issues would be useful, as perhaps there might be some nuances between coins, perhaps some having a degree of frosting to the Obverse? And a deeper Cameo to the Reverse?

 

 

@richatthecroft   

I will do this to assist in your comparisons next Friday 9th, I only usually go to secure storage on a Fridays.