Gold sovereign old colour (silver mix) vs new colour (copper mix)

[Nowhereman]

Hello stackers,  collectors and fans of PM's.  Gold Sovereigns  have always  bothered me, I first bought one to commemorate the birth of my first daughter back in 2008 and was so disappointed in the colour. I did the same for my second daughter and it was the same shiny penny colour that I loved as a kid at Christmas but was very un-gold like. 

So when I started stacking and collecting gold I favoured the 24K 9999 varieties as they satisfied that primal desire that true gold inspires and avoided Sovereigns like the plague. 

I did however recently buy a 2022 jubilee sovereign because I liked the design and then a 1958 and 63 Gillick sovereign because they just looked like gold. When compared side by side the difference in the 22K alloy is so pronounced (Apologies for the photo quality)

 Apparently the alloy was changed from a silver mix to a copper mix back in 2000 and my 3  questions for discussion are : Who prefers the old colour to the new colour?

Can the mint be petitioned to revert to the old mix?

Have I missed something? (I have only done a surface level Google search so quite probably).

Edited April 7, 2023 by Nowhereman
Grammar

[SidS]

@LawrenceChard
could write you an entire essay on this.

The post-2000 sovereigns are hideous in my opinion. I don't like the colour and I would never buy one. Worse still than the colour are the horrid satiny polished fields of all coinage since 1998 - including circulation coinage. It's impossible to pick them out of change in UNC anymore - they scuff so easily, same goes for all the BU coins and the sovereigns too.

 

[dicker]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Hello stackers,  collectors and fans of PM's.  Gold Sovereigns  have always  bothered me, I first bought one to commemorate the birth of my first daughter back in 2008 and was so disappointed in the colour. I did the same for my second daughter and it was the same shiny penny colour that I loved as a kid at Christmas but was very un-gold like. 

So when I started stacking and collecting gold I favoured the 24K 9999 varieties as they satisfied that primal desire that true gold inspires and avoided Sovereigns like the plague. 

I did however recently buy a 2022 jubilee sovereign because I liked the design and then a 1958 and 63 Gillick sovereign because they just looked like gold. When compared side by side the difference in the 22K alloy is so pronounced (Apologies for the photo quality)

 Apparently the alloy was changed from a silver mix to a copper mix back in 2000 and my 3  questions for discussion are : Who prefers the old colour to the new colour?

Can the mint be petitioned to revert to the old mix?

Have I missed something? (I have only done a surface level Google search so quite probably).

The world is your oyster.  Why not start a petition and ask others to sign?

[Nowhereman]

5 minutes ago, dicker said:

The world is your oyster.  Why not start a petition and ask others to sign?

I'm kind of testing the waters here to see if it's just me who dislikes the coppery sovereigns or not.

If its not just me and there is a general feeling in the forum community then maybe it's worth starting a petition to the royal mint. We do represent a fair chunk of their customer base.

[WizardOfSov]

I prefer the more yellow pre 2000 colour but I don't dislike the redder alloy.

[Nowhereman]

48 minutes ago, SidS said:

@LawrenceChard
could write you an entire essay on this.

The post-2000 sovereigns are hideous in my opinion. I don't like the colour and I would never buy one. Worse still than the colour are the horrid satiny polished fields of all coinage since 1998 - including circulation coinage. It's impossible to pick them out of change in UNC anymore - they scuff so easily, same goes for all the BU coins and the sovereigns too.

 

I would genuinely like to read that essay.

[dicker]

25 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

I'm kind of testing the waters here to see if it's just me who dislikes the coppery sovereigns or not.

If its not just me and there is a general feeling in the forum community then maybe it's worth starting a petition to the royal mint. We do represent a fair chunk of their customer base.

Lots of people in life say “someone should”.  Meaning they not my problem.

Setting up a petition is easy and quick.  Give it a go.  

[Skybadger]

I've just started collecting sovs and much prefer the more golden looking older ones. The copper looking ones don't appeal to me.

Would be amazing if they went back to the proper colour.

[Nowhereman]

12 minutes ago, dicker said:

Lots of people in life say “someone should”.  Meaning they not my problem.

Setting up a petition is easy and quick.  Give it a go.  

Just saw your avatar and name, I'm going to guess you like the orange sovs. 🤣

I'm just trying to do a bit of a focus group to see if my petty winge has legs. I will figure out how to start a petition later if there is any momentum in a genuine desire for a return to yellow gold Sovereigns.

[GoldenGriffin]

I prefer gold 999.9 pure or 2 parts silver.

I do have a few 'rose gold' modern proof sovereigns, which I would prefer to be yellow gold.

Given the change in composition, replacing the silver to copper and the amount of silver collectable coins released, I do wonder if the silver price will start to increase in the coming years?

[Nowhereman]

18 minutes ago, GoldenGriffin said:

I prefer gold 999.9 pure or 2 parts silver.

I do have a few 'rose gold' modern proof sovereigns, which I would prefer to be yellow gold.

Given the change in composition, replacing the silver to copper and the amount of silver collectable coins released, I do wonder if the silver price will start to increase in the coming years?

I reckon it saved less than 40 pence per sovereign when they replaced the silver with copper so the economic argument doesn't really make sense to me which just leaves the aesthetic argument which again, I just don't get.

The only reason I can think  is down to the continuous mindless drive of modernity for constant change.🤮🤮🤮.

[Nowhereman]

47 minutes ago, Skybadger said:

I've just started collecting sovs and much prefer the more golden looking older ones. The copper looking ones don't appeal to me.

Would be amazing if they went back to the proper colour.

It's  5 to meh in favour of the old skool so far. Thanks for the input.

[Britannia47]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

I would genuinely like to read that essay.

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/redgold.html
This might help from Chards.

There are loads of ‘gold alloy’ topics on TSF if you search. I doubt whether the RM will change to ‘Yellow gold’ by way of a petition. LC has strongly stated his opposition to the use of red gold in the past. The RM will not listen.

Here’s a similar photo to yours…..

[Nowhereman]

Spot the gold coin 🤔🤔🤔.

[bluemoon]

The 2022 Sovs literally look like a freshly minted 1p coin. If I had my Sovs on me now I'd do a side by side. Anyone?

Edited April 7, 2023 by bluemoon

[CazLikesCoins]

Dunno why people don't like new sovs. I think they're luverleee.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by CazLikesCoins

[Nowhereman]

15 minutes ago, bluemoon said:

The recent Sovs literally look like a freshly minted 1p coin. If I had my Sovs on me now I'd do a side by side. Anyone?

💯

[Nowhereman]

14 minutes ago, CazLikesCoins said:

Dunno why people don't like new sovs. I think they're luverleee.

 

 

 

I saw the photo on the pre edit link and I would agree they looked lovely but very yellow.

I'm honestly really interested if there is a specific reason you prefer the newer sovereigns to the older ones. I get that it is a matter of personal preference at the end of the day .

 It has just occurred to me that the newer coins would be shinier because of their youth in a world of oxygen and grubby fingers and could attract the magpie in us.

 It's just the shiny penny look I don't get. I would like to see a side by side photo of a newly minted penny and a new sovereign. 

Unfortunately I have more sovereigns than shiny pennies at the moment. I will raid the kids piggy banks and get an incriminating photo.

[CazLikesCoins]

7 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

I saw the photo on the pre edit link and I would agree they looked lovely but very yellow.

I'm honestly really interested if there is a specific reason you prefer the newer sovereigns to the older ones. I get that it is a matter of personal preference at the end of the day .

 It has just occurred to me that the newer coins would be shinier because of their youth in a world of oxygen and grubby fingers and could attract the magpie in us.

 It's just the shiny penny look I don't get. I would like to see a side by side photo of a newly minted penny and a new sovereign. 

Unfortunately I have more sovereigns than shiny pennies at the moment. I will raid the kids piggy banks and get an incriminating photo.

Here's pic back again. I was going to replace it with a pic of a new sov and old Gillick side by side but couldn't find it so gave up on the thread and wandered away lol.

I like all sovs really. My favs are Gillicks although the newer ones look fine to me too. I suppose I'm not too fussy how they come as long as I can stick them in secure storage for a rainy day.

[Nowhereman]

26 minutes ago, CazLikesCoins said:

Here's pic back again. I was going to replace it with a pic of a new sov and old Gillick side by side but couldn't find it so gave up on the thread and wandered away lol.

I like all sovs really. My favs are Gillicks although the newer ones look fine to me too. I suppose I'm not too fussy how they come as long as I can stick them in secure storage for a rainy day.

It's still 22K at the end of the day 👍

[CANV]

im a massive 22 carat fan.  prefer the original brits and krugs to the .999 stuff,,

love a sov, but only own gillicks n older.   I have never seen a 'new' coppery one in hand. but I think the next few I buy will be them..  

[Nowhereman]

14 minutes ago, CANV said:

im a massive 22 carat fan.  prefer the original brits and krugs to the .999 stuff,,

love a sov, but only own gillicks n older.   I have never seen a 'new' coppery one in hand. but I think the next few I buy will be them..  

I only ever had the newer sovs and never saw the appeal so I went down the 999 road until i recently got 2 older Gillicks. I would be interested in how you feel when you have one of each in each hand. 

[CANV]

I have 999 brits.  still prefer the krugs and my one pre 999 brit in hand.  sovs are still my fave and am looking forward to getting my mitts on a 'new coppery one'.     

[SidS]

9 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

I saw the photo on the pre edit link and I would agree they looked lovely but very yellow.

I'm honestly really interested if there is a specific reason you prefer the newer sovereigns to the older ones. I get that it is a matter of personal preference at the end of the day .

 It has just occurred to me that the newer coins would be shinier because of their youth in a world of oxygen and grubby fingers and could attract the magpie in us.

 It's just the shiny penny look I don't get. I would like to see a side by side photo of a newly minted penny and a new sovereign. 

Unfortunately I have more sovereigns than shiny pennies at the moment. I will raid the kids piggy banks and get an incriminating photo.

I did have a 2000 half sovereign and back then I did take shiny new coins out of circulation to put together a date set. I sat it side by side next to a shiny 2000 penny and I thought, hmm they're similar. I never bought another new gold coin after that.

[modofantasma]

11 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

I reckon it saved less than 40 pence per sovereign when they replaced the silver with copper so the economic argument doesn't really make sense to me which just leaves the aesthetic argument which again, I just don't get.

The only reason I can think  is down to the continuous mindless drive of modernity for constant change.🤮🤮🤮.

It could still be a financial reason.... Whilst they'd only need a couple of parts silver and could still include mostly copper in the non gold portion, maybe they think rose gold or whatever these recent ones are are the future...

Perhaps they feel a need to make the sovs different enough from other bullion coins like their own Britannia to be able to shift those at higher premiums...

Quite a lot of other possibilities too.

Haven't got many photos to hand but here's one from a recent delivery... A random spread of various years. The older ones are definitely my preference