2023 “Royal Arms” Sovereign

[PapaLazarou]

5 hours ago, AgCoyote said:

I suspect the lion and unicorn in this version will be more modern looking and realistic than the 2022.

A more realistic unicorn?

Bearing a greater resemblance to something that doesn't exist.

Hints of an oxymoron.

Edited October 12, 2022 by PapaLazarou

[westminstrel]

18 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

I think there is a danger of the sovereign losing its distinctiveness.  The RM now releases so many coins in so many sizes and varieties, the one thing that made the sovereign distinctive was St. George and the Dragon.

Dude I couldn’t agree with you more.

The Coat of Arms may be a nice heraldic design, but it just doesn’t have the instant association with the Sovereign that the St. George and the Dragon design has.

The St. George and the Dragon is just so iconic - you see it and your mind instantly goes, Sovereign.

It’s why I would’ve preferred that timeless and classic design for the Coronation year.

But I guess we live in an age where the tendency to get easily bored and crave something new is the prevailing trend.

[GoldStatue]

1 hour ago, westminstrel said:

Dude I couldn’t agree with you more.

The Coat of Arms may be a nice heraldic design, but it just doesn’t have the instant association with the Sovereign that the St. George and the Dragon design has.

The St. George and the Dragon is just so iconic - you see it and your mind instantly goes, Sovereign.

It’s why I would’ve preferred that timeless and classic design for the Coronation year.

But I guess we live in an age where the tendency to get easily bored and crave something new is the prevailing trend.

If every year they change the design of the sovereign, in some way, the special years become less special.

They won't stop changing it while the coins sell out in 15mins every time they are released, so it is here to stay.

 

[westminstrel]

40 minutes ago, GoldStatue said:

If every year they change the design of the sovereign, in some way, the special years become less special.

Exactly this! ☝️ 

Too many new designs, and too many variations (privy marks, milled vs plain edge, matte vs proof vs bullion, piedfort vs regular).

[kimchi]

10 hours ago, westminstrel said:

The Coat of Arms may be a nice heraldic design, but it just doesn’t have the instant association with the Sovereign that the St. George and the Dragon design has.

The St. George and the Dragon is just so iconic - you see it and your mind instantly goes, Sovereign.

It’s why I would’ve preferred that timeless and classic design for the Coronation year.

But I guess we live in an age where the tendency to get easily bored and crave something new is the prevailing trend.

I'm with you (even thinking about stopping collecting modern Sovs now). I was planning on getting the first year of Charles before I finished my collection, but this puts me in a quandary, as I'll also feel I have to buy the following year for the first St George.

I'd rather not buy tbh, but...

The two heralds back to back make perfect sense and will be an incredible 'twinset' and a bit of a banker imo.

The worry there is all the variations and whatnot the Mint will pull

Edited October 12, 2022 by kimchi

[westminstrel]

10 hours ago, kimchi said:

I'm with you (even thinking about stopping collecting modern Sovs now). I was planning on getting the first year of Charles before I finished my collection, but this puts me in a quandary, as I'll also feel I have to buy the following year for the first St George.

I'd rather not buy tbh, but...

The two heralds back to back make perfect sense and will be an incredible 'twinset' and a bit of a banker imo.

The worry there is all the variations and whatnot the Mint will pull

Same here. After 2023 I think I’m done with modern Sovs. While a change previously felt special, it now just feels gimmicky.

With the St. George and the Dragon design, the Royal Mint should be proud of a centuries old tradition and heritage that has managed to endure the test of time. It’s what makes the Sovereign so iconic - both to the UK and to the Royal Mint. It’s something to be proud of.

Instead, the Royal Mint seems to be varying the design at every opportunity just for the sake of it.

There are 100s of coins and ranges with annual variations - not just by the Royal Mint, but by numerous other Mints around the world as well.

I think the Sovereign risks losing its identity and becoming like any of these coin ranges out there.

[foinikas]

Yes, the Royal Mint will want to monetize on the ascension of a new King, but as this is such a special event, i really do not understand why not everyone is welcoming this new design.

We are lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase two special reverses in two consequent years. This is something to celebrate!

There will be plenty of years to buy the standard reverse for people who are happy to buy that every year. 

I am very excited for this release and hopefully they will keep proof coin mintages within a good range (not very high mintage).

 

[westminstrel]

7 minutes ago, foinikas said:

Yes, the Royal Mint will want to monetize on the ascension of a new King, but as this is such a special event, i really do not understand why not everyone is welcoming this new design.

We are lucky enough to have the opportunity to purchase two special reverses in two consequent years. This is something to celebrate!

There will be plenty of years to buy the standard reverse for people who are happy to buy that every year. 

I am very excited for this release and hopefully they will keep proof coin mintages within a good range (not very high mintage).

 

I’m sure there will be an entire range of coins to celebrate the Coronation, just as there was for the Platinum Jubilee this year.

What would distinguish the 2023 “special reverse Sovereign” from any such coin besides the fact it is 22 carat and called a “Sovereign”?

I hope you see my point so you can understand why I may be coming across as unwelcoming of this reverse choice.

In the end, I intend getting the 2023 Sovereign because, for me, the Coronation year is what makes it special. Not the design. I would’ve bought it without a second thought even if it were to have the classic St. George and Dragon reverse.

[refero]

it is true the RM has, in the last 10 years, started a commercial policy that ended up by flooding the market with so many different coins, all of them "unique", "special" etc etc. And of course if everything is unique, nothing is at the end of the day.

But, guys, this is also due to our behaviour. If those commercial coins hadnt sold within minutes i quite doubt this insanity would have endured. I personally keep my philosophy without getting too much stress. The sovereign is the proof one. One per year. Be that with the classic reverse or with a "special" one. I litterally dont care about SoTD, plain edges, piedfort, double sovs, etc etc etc. If you just stay with the "normal" proof, considering the period 2000 to today, i count, as special designs; 

2002-2005-2012-2016-2017-2022

then of course you can consider glyph, marks etc etc (2018-2021 etc etc) but this is something non relevant.

Another thing is the "coronation coinage/set"; this is litterally something iconic, and i agree it can be plain edge, it can be with the classic st george and the dragon, it can be coats of army, it can be whatever they want. It is once per monarch.

[kimchi]

Excellent points @westminstrel and @foinikas! There will be a range of views on this of course, and no 'right' or 'wrong' (though there will be a 'majority' move, which is an interesting topic I think in itself)

You have helped clarify things for me (it's good to talk!) as to where I think I presently stand. I was a collector of recent modern QEII proof and (certain) DPLs e.g. SotD. And I think that is what collectors will now concentrate on. The Sovereign under Charles could continue for another twenty or so years, and that is too deep for my pockets, plus I have no stress going forward if I consolidate my collection now @refero has also made some excellent points from a different perspective, if I do get anything I am currently inclined to only the 'main Sovereigns' next year.

While all eyes are on that, I think it's an excellent time to look for added value in all the different QEII Sovs (and there are many 'sleepers' imo - for now! - we have been lucky enough to have).