Silver Detected in a Yellow 2022 Royal Mint Gold Quintuple Sovereign - Herald of Change or Simple Blip?

[LawrenceChard]

Silver Detected in a Yellow 2022 Royal Mint Gold Quintuple Sovereign - Herald of Change or Simple Blip?

For those who care about the colour of gold sovereigns, this might just be important news and a portent of imminent changes for the better, or it could just be a random one-off occurrence.

For those who don't know, most recent sovereigns, and the extended sovereign family, have been an awful coppery-red colour for about the past 20 years. Traditionally, they were a pleasant yellow colour, similar to real, pure gold. This is because sovereigns used to contain a small proportion of silver, which made a big difference to their colour.

If you look of the recent 2022 Gold Briilant Uncirculated Quintuple £5 Sovereign, or photos of it, they look yellow not red / pink / rose.

Surprisingly yellow.

Niton test result (wrongly titled):

 

I have already posted this in my earlier topic / thread here:

But I thought this unexpected development was potentially too important to appear as an afterthought.

The observant will notice that I have titles the Niton sheet as 2022 Double Sovereign, but I must have been in too much of a hurry, as often.

It should be headed 2022 Quintuple Sovereign (No beers for spotting this too late).

Obverse:

Gold 918 +- 3

Copper 81 +-1

Silver 1 +-0

Reverse:

Gold 918 +- 3

Copper 82 +-1

Silver 0 +-0

I was pleasantly surprised by the obverse reading, but then slightly suprised by the initial reverse reading of 0.

When I pressed the "details" button, I got further information:

Silver 000.5 +- 00003

This was more or less as I expected.

Both silver readings were probably slightly under 1 ppt, but the obverse must have been enough for it to get rounded up to 1 ppt, while the reverse got rounded down to 0 ppt.

Nevertheless, this is a very interesting result.

I was partly joking when I suggested the RM might have sneaked some silver into the alloy, perhaps as a consumer or other test. I may just have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Although the matt finish may have helped the apparent colour, it is beyond doubt that the tiny silver content has improved the colour.

Will we ever know?

Watch this space!

I have yet to test one of the 2022 Gold Proof Piedfort Sovereigns, but will do so in the next few days, and add the results, but they also look quite yellow.

There is hope!

 

 

 

 

[Britannia47]

Whoopie, Great news!  Must be accidental though ‘cos when it comes to alloys the RM doesn’t know it’s arse from its elbow!

[YorkshireStacker]

Happy days! Let's hope it's a sign of things to come, rather than a one off coin that was made on a Friday afternoon by the work experience kid who was tiktok-ing and instagram-ing at the time.

[Mtaybar]

I don't know how they make or apply the matte finish but could it just be a component of that... Does a sotd sovereign have the same reading as the quintuple as it has the same finish? 

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Mtaybar said:

I don't know how they make or apply the matte finish but could it just be a component of that... Does a sotd sovereign have the same reading as the quintuple as it has the same finish? 

The matt finish is not applied to the coin.

It is applied to the dies from which the coin is struck. Sandblasting is the most likely method.

Additionally, the blanks or planchets would not be polished before striking, they may even be roughed up a little first, although this would probably not make much difference.

2022 bullion sovereigns do not have a matt finish.

The colour difference is almost certainly wholly or mainly because of the slight silver content.

😎

[paulmerton]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Sandblasting is the most likely method.

Nope, lasers.

[westminstrel]

21 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Silver Detected in a Yellow 2022 Royal Mint Gold Quintuple Sovereign - Herald of Change or Simple Blip?

For those who care about the colour of gold sovereigns, this might just be important news and a portent of imminent changes for the better, or it could just be a random one-off occurrence.

For those who don't know, most recent sovereigns, and the extended sovereign family, have been an awful coppery-red colour for about the past 20 years. Traditionally, they were a pleasant yellow colour, similar to real, pure gold. This is because sovereigns used to contain a small proportion of silver, which made a big difference to their colour.

If you look of the recent 2022 Gold Briilant Uncirculated Quintuple £5 Sovereign, or photos of it, they look yellow not red / pink / rose.

Surprisingly yellow.

Niton test result (wrongly titled):

 

I have already posted this in my earlier topic / thread here:

But I thought this unexpected development was potentially too important to appear as an afterthought.

The observant will notice that I have titles the Niton sheet as 2022 Double Sovereign, but I must have been in too much of a hurry, as often.

It should be headed 2022 Quintuple Sovereign (No beers for spotting this too late).

Obverse:

Gold 918 +- 3

Copper 81 +-1

Silver 1 +-0

Reverse:

Gold 918 +- 3

Copper 82 +-1

Silver 0 +-0

I was pleasantly surprised by the obverse reading, but then slightly suprised by the initial reverse reading of 0.

When I pressed the "details" button, I got further information:

Silver 000.5 +- 00003

This was more or less as I expected.

Both silver readings were probably slightly under 1 ppt, but the obverse must have been enough for it to get rounded up to 1 ppt, while the reverse got rounded down to 0 ppt.

Nevertheless, this is a very interesting result.

I was partly joking when I suggested the RM might have sneaked some silver into the alloy, perhaps as a consumer or other test. I may just have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Although the matt finish may have helped the apparent colour, it is beyond doubt that the tiny silver content has improved the colour.

Will we ever know?

Watch this space!

I have yet to test one of the 2022 Gold Proof Piedfort Sovereigns, but will do so in the next few days, and add the results, but they also look quite yellow.

There is hope!

 

 

 

 

Fascinating. What are the usual readings for the “rose gold” sovereigns of the past few years?

Edited September 5, 2022 by westminstrel

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Nope, lasers.

Tha last time i put a matt finish on metal, I used a small sandblaster. It is cheap, quick, easy, and very effective.

Lasers might work, but would probably cost more, take longer, produce an inferior effect, and be more difficult to control.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, westminstrel said:

Fascinating. What are the usual readings for the “rose gold” sovereigns of the past few years?

I was going to point you to a page with a test result for a 2022 bullion sovereign, but can't find one quickly on TSF.

This page, which I think you have seen before gives 2 recent examples:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/analysis-of-alloy-content-of-gold-sovereigns/180

2014	R.M.	U.K.	Sovereign	QEII Rank-Broadley	918	82	0	0	0	0
2021	R.M.	U.K.	Sovereign	Latest	916	84	0	0	0	0

The important point: 0 silver!

😎

[YorkshireStacker]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

cheap, quick, easy, and very effective.

Think I used to date her if I'm honest, sounds familiar.
 

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

The important point: 0 silver!

Stop it! I'm getting more and more excited that RM may have seen the light and this was a deliberate addition! 🤞

[ArgentSmith]

3 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Nope, lasers.

I would have guessed sand blasting but this post is rather assertive, maybe paulmerton knows and isn't guessing?

[paulmerton]

12 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Tha last time i put a matt finish on metal, I used a small sandblaster. It is cheap, quick, easy, and very effective.

Lasers might work, but would probably cost more, take longer, produce an inferior effect, and be more difficult to control.

😎

Nearly all commemorative dies are entirely cut by a laser these days, and the lasered surface inherently has a matt effect unless it is polished. I don't think any sandblasting would be required. 

[ArgentSmith]

10 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Nearly all commemorative dies are entirely cut by a laser these days, and the lasered surface inherently has a matt effect unless it is polished. I don't think any sandblasting would be required. 

I don't know but wouldn't it be an imperfect matt finish if inherent to laser cutting?

[LawrenceChard]

19 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Nearly all commemorative dies are entirely cut by a laser these days, and the lasered surface inherently has a matt effect unless it is polished. I don't think any sandblasting would be required. 

They may be cut by laser. but I would bet that sandblsting gives a much better matt finish.

😎

[paulmerton]

9 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

I don't know but wouldn't it be an imperfect matt finish if inherent to laser cutting?

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

They may be cut by laser. but I would bet that sandblsting gives a much better matt finish.

😎

I think it's surprising what can be done.

[Stuntman]

It's definitely surprising how badly it can be done 😉😁

[westminstrel]

8 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I was going to point you to a page with a test result for a 2022 bullion sovereign, but can't find one quickly on TSF.

This page, which I think you have seen before gives 2 recent examples:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/analysis-of-alloy-content-of-gold-sovereigns/180

2014	R.M.	U.K.	Sovereign	QEII Rank-Broadley	918	82	0	0	0	0
2021	R.M.	U.K.	Sovereign	Latest	916	84	0	0	0	0

The important point: 0 silver!

😎

Ah that’s what I wanted to know. So they had only copper and no silver.

You’ve made a cool discovery with this I think. 🙂

If I were in the RM marketing team, I’d have definitely pointed out the return to original yellow gold. 😉

[LawrenceChard]

17 hours ago, YorkshireStacker said:

Think I used to date her if I'm honest, sounds familiar.
 

Got a phone number?

... photo?

😎

[YorkshireStacker]

Yes I have both...but I'm sure you don't want to hear my dulcet Yorkshire tones or see my ugly mug 🤣

[MonkeysUncle]

Cynic mode on

Their copper supply was a bit low due to Brexit/ Covid/ Big Vlad/ Bojo/ Cost of Living/ Leaves on the Line.

Cilla mode on

And they had a lorra lorra silver...

[MonkeysUncle]

On 05/09/2022 at 18:12, LawrenceChard said:

Tha last time i put a matt finish on metal, I used a small sandblaster. It is cheap, quick, easy, and very effective.

Lasers might work, but would probably cost more, take longer, produce an inferior effect, and be more difficult to control.

😎

My brain, which is full of nonsense (qualifying me to run (ruin?) the country!) thinks sand blasting would make a horrible rough surface.

My trusty mechanic recently educated me that sand blasting engine cam covers is a very very not good idea. I now have a very nice looking engine as it has been vapour blasted. Much more gentle.

 

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, MonkeysUncle said:

My brain, which is full of nonsense (qualifying me to run (ruin?) the country!) thinks sand blasting would make a horrible rough surface.

My trusty mechanic recently educated me that sand blasting engine cam covers is a very very not good idea. I now have a very nice looking engine as it has been vapour blasted. Much more gentle.

 

There are different types of sand, and different grain sizes. In any case "sandblasting" shsould probably be treated as generic rather than speciific, when referring to the meium used. It is likely that sand was the original medium when the process was first invented back in 1870.

Sandblasting, sometimes known as abrasive blasting, is the operation of forcibly propelling a stream of abrasive material against a surface under high pressure to smooth a rough surface, roughen a smooth surface, shape a surface or remove surface contaminants. A pressurised fluid, typically compressed air, or a centrifugal wheel is used to propel the blasting material (often called the media). The first abrasive blasting process was patented by Benjamin Chew Tilghman on 18 October 1870.

There are several variants of the process, using various media; some are highly abrasive, whereas others are milder. The most abrasive are shot blasting (with metal shot) and sandblasting (with sand). Moderately abrasive variants include glass bead blasting (with glass beads) and plastic media blasting (PMB) with ground-up plastic stock or walnut shells and corncobs. Some of these substances can cause anaphylactic shock to individuals allergic to the media.^[3] A mild version is sodablasting (with baking soda). In addition, there are alternatives that are barely abrasive or nonabrasive, such as ice blasting and dry-ice blasting.

😎

[Murphy1986]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

There are different types of sand, and different grain sizes. In any case "sandblasting" shsould probably be treated as generic rather than speciific, when referring to the meium used. It is likely that sand was the original medium when the process was first invented back in 1870.

Sandblasting, sometimes known as abrasive blasting, is the operation of forcibly propelling a stream of abrasive material against a surface under high pressure to smooth a rough surface, roughen a smooth surface, shape a surface or remove surface contaminants. A pressurised fluid, typically compressed air, or a centrifugal wheel is used to propel the blasting material (often called the media). The first abrasive blasting process was patented by Benjamin Chew Tilghman on 18 October 1870.

There are several variants of the process, using various media; some are highly abrasive, whereas others are milder. The most abrasive are shot blasting (with metal shot) and sandblasting (with sand). Moderately abrasive variants include glass bead blasting (with glass beads) and plastic media blasting (PMB) with ground-up plastic stock or walnut shells and corncobs. Some of these substances can cause anaphylactic shock to individuals allergic to the media.^[3] A mild version is sodablasting (with baking soda). In addition, there are alternatives that are barely abrasive or nonabrasive, such as ice blasting and dry-ice blasting.

😎

I am a stone mason by trade, we use shot blasting for our lettering and design work, and a less abrasive fine sand to create a matt finish on polished granite. Therefore logic would dictate that if you were to lower the abrasive properties of the blasting media enough it would also work on a coin. In my professional opinion that is. Shall i blast a coin and find out?

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Murphy1986 said:

I am a stone mason by trade, we use shot blasting for our lettering and design work, and a less abrasive fine sand to create a matt finish on polished granite. Therefore logic would dictate that if you were to lower the abrasive properties of the blasting media enough it would also work on a coin. In my professional opinion that is. Shall i blast a coin and find out?

Are you going to try it?

😎

[Murphy1986]

I dont have any bullion id be willing to blast incase i ruin it.. i could blast a standard 10p or something and report back if u like?! Ha!