Sovereign Stats

[dicker]

Hi All,

Here is an interesting graph that describes the mintages of Sovereigns per year.

Not sure how the graph will display so bear with me!

Best

Dicker

 

 

 

 

[dicker]

In total I think there were a grand total of 1,083,190,348 Sovereigns minted across all mint branches from 1817 to date.

Best

Dicker

[ady]

19 minutes ago, dicker said:

In total I think there were a grand total of 1,083,190,348 Sovereigns minted across all mint branches from 1817 to date.

Dont dispute your stats for such a great chart. Does this mean about one in seven world wide could have a sov. Have understood everyone could own an ounce of silver of known mined silver.

[dicker]

The number remaining will be a small fraction of this as many Sovs were melted and refined, melted and re-minted etc.

Best

Dicker

[Petra]

15 minutes ago, ady said:

Dont dispute your stats for such a great chart. Does this mean about one in seven world wide could have a sov. Have understood everyone could own an ounce of silver of known mined silver.

 

11 minutes ago, dicker said:

The number remaining will be a small fraction of this as many Sovs were melted and refined, melted and re-minted etc.

Best

Dicker

No where near now due to the two world wars. Either melted and sent to USA or sent and then melted all to pay our bills!

[Pete]

Now I know why I have so many 1911 and 1912.
Best keep these to one side in a jam jar to put in the electricity meter the way prices are rising.

😅

 

[ady]

1 hour ago, Petra said:

The number remaining will be a small fraction of this as many Sovs were melted and refined, melted and re-minted etc.

Appreciate there will be a loss due to "recycling" as you point out and I guess that number can be greatly argued, but non the less the amount struck as presented is staggering.

[Foster88]

That’s a very interesting graph. Did you put this together yourself @dicker?

The amount minted in 1911 and 1912 is unbelievable. It would be interesting to know exactly how many were destroyed to know how many survived but I suppose we’ll never really know.

[Petra]

9 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

That’s a very interesting graph. Did you put this together yourself @dicker?

The amount minted in 1911 and 1912 is unbelievable. It would be interesting to know exactly how many were destroyed to know how many survived but I suppose we’ll never really know.

 

9 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

That’s a very interesting graph. Did you put this together yourself @dicker?

The amount minted in 1911 and 1912 is unbelievable. It would be interesting to know exactly how many were destroyed to know how many survived but I suppose we’ll never really know.

Representing £1, a sovereign would be common for some people, however, back then a lot of people could only hope to get hold of one.

[dicker]

28 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

That’s a very interesting graph. Did you put this together yourself @dicker?

The amount minted in 1911 and 1912 is unbelievable. It would be interesting to know exactly how many were destroyed to know how many survived but I suppose we’ll never really know.

Yes, I did, more to follow if anyone is interested.  I am a little time poor at the moment but have some other interesting views.  
 

Best

Dicker

[ady]

9 minutes ago, Petra said:

Representing £1, a sovereign would be common for some people, however, back then a lot of people could only hope to get hold of one

This got me thinking, thought the £ came from a lb of silver "sterling" but had known the sov. to be a £ equivalent. this would mean a high gold to silver ratio. Silver has had monetary value prescribed on the minting, but not the gold sov..

[Happypanda88]

Interesting to note from the graph that there was a tail-off after 1982 in mintages. I wonder if this was purely down to low demand for sovereigns.

[SidS]

On 16/02/2022 at 20:57, Foster88 said:

That’s a very interesting graph. Did you put this together yourself @dicker

The amount minted in 1911 and 1912 is unbelievable. It would be interesting to know exactly how many were destroyed to know how many survived but I suppose we’ll never really know.

When I went to the Titanic exhibition at the O2 arena back in 2011, there were a few sovereigns and halves that they had recovered from the sea bed. Some Edward VII but also at least one George V sovereign, so it was either 1911 or 1912 for certain.

I wonder how many more lay down there at the bottom of the Atlantic?

[SidS]

On 16/02/2022 at 21:28, ady said:

This got me thinking, thought the £ came from a lb of silver "sterling" but had known the sov. to be a £ equivalent. this would mean a high gold to silver ratio. Silver has had monetary value prescribed on the minting, but not the gold sov..

Well this is complex to be fair.

Originally - and I'm still uncertain about the definition of 'original' - but the £ was a pound weight of silver. I won't even write 'sterling silver' either.

I have come across several origin stories:

1st - Dating back to Charlemagne in France and then copied by Offa of Mercia in the late 700s (760s-780s) the broad silver penny was introduced at 240 to the pound weight of silver. This silver was near pure though and not sterling. Not sure which pound was used some Frankish pound or an Anglo-Saxon one.

2nd - Dating to Henry II era, around 1180 or so, a new coinage of "sterling silver" was initiated. In theory 240 of these pennies made 1lb of silver based on the tower pound. That said, these coins to my eyes at least are rather smaller than the Anglo-Saxon pennies I've seen - I imagine them to be lighter. So did 240 of these coins really weigh 1lb weight, or had the coinage started to detach from the weight system already? Or had the pound become lighter? Either/or could be true.

The fact is, during Richard II's reign there is a surviving inventory of his treasures from the 1390s, where items are priced based on their weight in silver - the coinage system and the weights system are still heavily linked. However, for me the discrepancy comes about with the coinage as it had become progressively lighter since the 1180s, quite a few revaluations during Edward III's reign.

The silver was reduced significantly in weight in the 1400s, meaning there was a complete disconnect between £ in money and lb in weight.

Indeed by the 1560s, about 62 shillings could be struck from 1lb weight of silver - 62 shillings having the monetary value of £3 2s.

So inflation had long removed any link between the two. By the time the modern sovereign was issued in 1817, it was 66 shillings struck from every pound weight of silver - thus valued at £3 6s.

The ratios between gold and silver have fluctuated over the centuries.

1817 sovereign is about 8g of 22ct gold.

1540s half sovereign is about 8g of 20ct gold.

1380s noble is about 7-8g of 23ct gold (a noble being a third of a pound).

 

[ady]

2 hours ago, SidS said:

Well this is complex to be fair.

Originally - and I'm still uncertain about the definition of 'original' - but the £ was a pound weight of silver. I won't even write 'sterling silver' either.

I have come across several origin stories:

1st - Dating back to Charlemagne in France and then copied by Offa of Mercia in the late 700s (760s-780s) the broad silver penny was introduced at 240 to the pound weight of silver. This silver was near pure though and not sterling. Not sure which pound was used some Frankish pound or an Anglo-Saxon one.

2nd - Dating to Henry II era, around 1180 or so, a new coinage of "sterling silver" was initiated. In theory 240 of these pennies made 1lb of silver based on the tower pound. That said, these coins to my eyes at least are rather smaller than the Anglo-Saxon pennies I've seen - I imagine them to be lighter. So did 240 of these coins really weigh 1lb weight, or had the coinage started to detach from the weight system already? Or had the pound become lighter? Either/or could be true.

The fact is, during Richard II's reign there is a surviving inventory of his treasures from the 1390s, where items are priced based on their weight in silver - the coinage system and the weights system are still heavily linked. However, for me the discrepancy comes about with the coinage as it had become progressively lighter since the 1180s, quite a few revaluations during Edward III's reign.

The silver was reduced significantly in weight in the 1400s, meaning there was a complete disconnect between £ in money and lb in weight.

Indeed by the 1560s, about 62 shillings could be struck from 1lb weight of silver - 62 shillings having the monetary value of £3 2s.

So inflation had long removed any link between the two. By the time the modern sovereign was issued in 1817, it was 66 shillings struck from every pound weight of silver - thus valued at £3 6s.

The ratios between gold and silver have fluctuated over the centuries.

1817 sovereign is about 8g of 22ct gold.

1540s half sovereign is about 8g of 20ct gold.

1380s noble is about 7-8g of 23ct gold (a noble being a third of a pound).

Thanks very much for your substantial input on this. Certainly informative and answered my self questioning.