What PM will perform well during the rise of electric cars?

[Bigmarc]

10 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

i8 to think of the running costs on that!

When you first popped up on the forum I thought "great name" but with some of the one liners coming out, I'm starting to think you're actually him.

[Bigmarc]

What about infrastructure? 

In the future 30 milion cars coming home at six, plugging in, turning oven on, popping kettle on, having a shower, sitting down Infront of Netflix and one person polishing his trumpet. Can the current grid cope? Is there going to be a big overhaul. Maybe charging point components, they definitely won't last as long as the car.

[paulmerton]

22 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

What about infrastructure? 

In the future 30 milion cars coming home at six, plugging in, turning oven on, popping kettle on, having a shower, sitting down Infront of Netflix and one person polishing his trumpet. Can the current grid cope? Is there going to be a big overhaul. Maybe charging point components, they definitely won't last as long as the car.

Plus everyone's new electric heat pumps!

[MJCOIN]

31 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

What about infrastructure? 

In the future 30 milion cars coming home at six, plugging in, turning oven on, popping kettle on, having a shower, sitting down Infront of Netflix and one person polishing his trumpet. Can the current grid cope? Is there going to be a big overhaul. Maybe charging point components, they definitely won't last as long as the car.

You can schedule charging to start at midnight with some chargers. In time I expect discounts on electricity prices will encourage users to charge overnight rather than at peak hours.

[HerefordBullyun]

50 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

What about infrastructure? 

In the future 30 milion cars coming home at six, plugging in, turning oven on, popping kettle on, having a shower, sitting down Infront of Netflix and one person polishing his trumpet. Can the current grid cope? Is there going to be a big overhaul. Maybe charging point components, they definitely won't last as long as the car.

You think how much electricity I generate from polishing said trumpet! See you didnt consider that! The energy firms will be begging me, they will end up sticking a cable up my arris. This time rodney we'll be miliionares! I'll be flogging sand to the arabs next! 

Edited October 19, 2021 by HerefordBullyun

[Spark268]

the greater electrification of cars and the supporting infrastructure will lead to higher demand for conductive materials such as copper, gold and silver.

Each EV has 1 to 2 ounces per silver, and 70million cars are expected to be sold in 2021. If all of these are electric, that amounts to approx. 100mln oz silver, which is 10% of annual production.

For larger vehicles, such as trucks, buses and planes, hydrogen fuel cells would be more suitable and for that platinum is needed.

[Martlet]

1 hour ago, MJCOIN said:

You can schedule charging to start at midnight with some chargers. In time I expect discounts on electricity prices will encourage users to charge overnight rather than at peak hours.

This is not the solution. Two problems, firstly there is still the matter of total generation capacity, time shifting only smooths out the peaks. Secondly, if we have a couple dozen million EV set to charge overnight, that will be the peak hours.  

If you look at total energy use and current capacity, how much is used in transportation (UK), we'll have to roughly double generation to replace petrol and diesel.  Too much focus is on realtivly minor issue of how to charge, without looking at this massive infrastructure shortfall. 

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, dicker said:

I have heard that servicing costs are low for Teslas from friends that own them.

There are of course tax benefits to owning electric cars both as an employee with a company car and a business owning / leasing a company car.  I haven’t done a spreadsheet on the ownership costs but the people I know driving teslas are accountants and smart with money…

In terms of EV materials, rare earth magnets are important and there has been research into replacing sodium for lithium in batteries.   Also weight reducing composites are likely evolve to build lighter stronger vehicles - it is possibly better to invest in companies creating composite materials.

Best

Dicker

Electric cars should logically have low servicing costs, as there are far fewer moving parts to wear or lubricate, and in general, they do have lower costs.

Fuel costs in the UK are around 3 to 4 pence per mile, compared with about 10 to 15 pence for their Internal Combusion Engine I.C.E. equivalents, based on smaller cars, but the proportions are similar for bigger cars.

Residual values are likely to be higher.

Road tax is generally zero or low.

You get to breathe cleaner air, with its health and well-being benefits.

Against all this, new purchase cost is currently (!) higher for electric compared with I.C.E. 

For consumers, total ownership costs could probably be estimated using mental arithmetic or the back of a proverbial fag packet, without resorting to a spreadsheet.

For businesses, the low Benefit in Kind (B.I.K.) costs make it a no-brainer in favour of electric, now and for the next few years at least.

A quick B.I.K. example: For some years, we used to lease a Mercedes S Class. The total annual costs were about £7,500 to £8,000, yet the B.I.K. charge was based on about £15,000 meaning we were being taxed on about double the actual cost, obviously a punitive rate. As a result, we used to charge the cost out to the driver, and just pay personal tax on the actual cost, then charge any business mileage back to the company. The most annoying part of this was the extra admin work it created, which could have been better spent on running th business or relaxing and enjoying life.

In contrast, a business could buy a £100,000 electic car, and the driver would pay B.I.K. on £2,000. You don't even need a fag packet to work that out!

🙂

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, paulmerton said:

i8 to think of the running costs on that!

Ah, I almost missed that pun!

On a serious note, they are actually quite low, 17 pence per kwh electricity, and it still gets 50 to 60 mpg when using the I.C.E.

BMW main dealer servicing is probably the biggest part of the running cost.

[Wampum]

I think you will see a huge increase in amp-rage if it goes all electric ,how many times have you seen people fighting or arguing at a petrol pump, and that is because they have only sat an extra minute or two,

now increase that to someone waiting for a three hour charge.

I personally own 12 electric cars, if you count scalextric,which happily go around the track all day if I want them to.

Just as an opinion with regards the metal side, I would say Platinum looks good as wouldn't rule out fuel cell tech at the mo.        

[paulmerton]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Ah, I almost missed that pun!

On a serious note, they are actually quite low, 17 pence per kwh electricity, and it still gets 50 to 60 mpg when using the I.C.E.

BMW main dealer servicing is probably the biggest part of the running cost.

But what about the wheels? Surely it can't take long for the reeding to wear down to less than 1.6mm!

[HerefordBullyun]

9 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

BMW main dealer servicing is probably the biggest part of the running cost.

and the parts BMW are the **** turpin for parts

[paulmerton]

8 minutes ago, Wampum said:

I think you will see a huge increase in amp-rage if it goes all electric ,how many times have you seen people fighting or arguing at a petrol pump, and that is because they have only sat an extra minute or two,

now increase that to someone waiting for a three hour charge.

I personally own 12 electric cars, if you count scalextric,which happily go around the track all day if I want them to.

Just as an opinion with regards the metal side, I would say Platinum looks good as wouldn't rule out fuel cell tech at the mo.        

I would only consider getting an electric car when the ranges on the cheaper ones hits, say, 400 miles, such that I would only ever need to charge it at home apart from the odd time.

Hopefully in the future it'll just be a case of parking in a normal car parking space and your car will automatically be charged, or even charged while you're going along a motorway, but the transition to that is going to be long and annoying I bet.

[paulmerton]

Haha, topically, hot off the press:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58899006

Edited October 19, 2021 by paulmerton
added desktop link

[dicker]

There is money in the “green” game.  Almost everyone who I know and is something of a Spiv has run businesses in…

PPI / bank charge reclaim

Carbon trading

Solar on houses

Wind farms

Or a derivative business such as investing in these.  

In almost all cases there have been grants or govenment intervention that made these businesses viable (and I guess “easy”).

The intent is good from governments of course.

Best

Dicker
 

[HerefordBullyun]

1 minute ago, dicker said:

 

The SELF intent is good from governments of course.

Best

Dicker
 

fixed that for you.....

[Bigmarc]

21 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

would only consider getting an electric car when the ranges on the cheaper ones hits, say, 400 miles, such that I would only ever need to charge it at home apart from the odd time

Yes I know a few people that lease corsas. 160 miles on a charge. One said he had to travel from liverpool and when he pulled into the services all 4 bays were full. Bit of a wait I suppose. 

[dicker]

There will be a natural tipping point where people move to EV’s.  I guess that will be triggered by EV cost, range and any government incentives.

At around that point the demand for materials will start to spike I suspect.

What will happen to petrol stations? Turn into charging stations?  I understand it is expensive to de-commission and decommission old fuel storage tanks so there will be a business in this as well.  
 

Best

Dicker

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, paulmerton said:

But what about the wheels? Surely it can't take long for the reeding to wear down to less than 1.6mm!

I was using racing slicks! ☺️

[CANV]

The tipping point will be when they ‘MAKE’ petrol too expensive for the plebs..   take all the tax off and see where the real power per pound is for the ability to drive around the country.   It’s not electricity 

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, paulmerton said:

I would only consider getting an electric car when the ranges on the cheaper ones hits, say, 400 miles, such that I would only ever need to charge it at home apart from the odd time.

Hopefully in the future it'll just be a case of parking in a normal car parking space and your car will automatically be charged, or even charged while you're going along a motorway, but the transition to that is going to be long and annoying I bet.

That's a little like saying you would not go anywhere where you could not get there and back on one tank of fuel! 🙂

Sure, range anxiety is still a big factor with E.V.s, but it is largely psychological rather than logical. How frequently do you do return journeys greater than the range of an E.V., allowing for a reserve?

Do you have just one vehicle in the household, or more? It could be worth having short range E.V., in addition to your Range Rover 5.0 litre V8 (or whatever).

Do you only ever refill your I.C.E. at home, or do you use a filling station? 

Ranges of cheaper E.V.s are increasing, and many models are increasingly being offered in standard and long range versions. We have already done a small number of longer trips using an MG or Zoe, and recharging has not been a great problem.

I am sure the media, possibly influenced by some of the traditional car manufacturers, like to run articles about faulty charging stations, lack of chargers, etc. The traditional manufacturers allowed themselves to get stuck in a dangerous existential situation, by failing to research and develop E.V.s earlier, and are facing a difficult and expensive catch-up gamble. I am sure they all have propaganda departments trying their best to help them survive the change.

I like your vision of the future, and share the hope that things will progress towards it before too long.

I was being slightly cautious when we bought our i8 hybrid 6 years ago, and even then, a Tesla Model S might have been a better buy.

Transition? It is very common for most people to resist change. 🙂

6 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Haha, topically, hot off the press:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58899006

Sounds like the BBC have been reading this TSF thread! 😎

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Yes I know a few people that lease corsas. 160 miles on a charge. One said he had to travel from liverpool and when he pulled into the services all 4 bays were full. Bit of a wait I suppose. 

Corsa E.V.s are about £30K, better would be an MG EV for almot £10K less.

[LawrenceChard]

On 18/10/2021 at 18:15, paulmerton said:

It's clear that electric car production is really going to ramp up over the next several years, and that the demand for catalytic converters will dwindle accordingly.

During that period, I can imagine platinum, rhodium and palladium all being a bit risky simply because most of their production currently ends up being used in cats. Will their prices plummet when this demand has gone?

Are there any obvious precious metal opportunities relating specifically to the production of electric car motors, car batteries, car electronics and so on?

Copper seems an obvious choice at the cheap end, but what precious metals would you bet on?

 

I just noticed

"ChrisSilver changed the title to What PM will perform well during the rise of electric cars?"

This is somewhat ambiguous, as possible answers could include "Boris Johnson", "Rishi Sunak", "Sir Keir Starmer", "Andy Burnham", or similar. 😎

What was the original topic title?

[HerefordBullyun]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

This is somewhat ambiguous, as possible answers could include "Boris Johnson", "Rishi Sunak", "Sir Keir Starmer", "Andy Burnham", or similar. 😎

What was the original topic title?

Were all doomed regardless who gets in! 

[CANV]

or a 15 k diesel ford for at least the next 5 years that will do 30k miles a year at 50 mpg. . these electric things are only remotely viable due to tax..  thats tax on petrol, diesel and road tax..  

Yes it is the future. or hydrogen is, or something else. its all very VHS Betamax at the moment  

no one has costed the environmental damage of batteries for cars..  although the manufacturing process for the overall car is far simpler 

my concern is thats its the least well off that get priced out of nation wide mobility in the rush to save 0.001 per cent of the carbon output of the humans on this planet.