Is It Worth Grading A Coin If You Can See Milk Spots?

[SilverJacks]

Today I was about to submit a number of silver coins for grading (Proof Completers), but noticed what looks like early signs of milk spotting (RM trademark). From most angles they can't be seen but when condensation forms from the heat from my fingers through the capsule, they show quite prominently.

Does this make it pointless trying to grade? Would they come back with details notation and therefor no specific grade? I'm tempted to send them just so that if/when I sell them it would be under honest terms but would that be an unnecessary waste of time and money?

Any thoughts appreciated

[CollectorNo1]

Personally I wouldn't waste my money sending off any coin with signs of milkspots. 1. It will affect the grade you get and 2. Even if its in a slab with the early signs of milkspotting these will get worse over time,and what grade you receive now will not hold when you come to sell.

[SilverJacks]

21 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Personally I wouldn't waste my money sending off any coin with signs of milkspots. 1. It will affect the grade you get and 2. Even if its in a slab with the early signs of milkspotting these will get worse over time,and what grade you receive now will not hold when you come to sell.

I wouldn't mind it dragging the grade down, just the dreaded details notation, which would also leave it without a specific grade.

Not sure what to do with it now. Will probably just keep and pass down. Right, I'm off to that "lessons learned" thread I saw the other day 😂

[motorbikez]

Milkspots make no difference to the strike, you can still get a 70 with milkspots, I've seen coins submitted with the odd spot get a 70.The problem will be if you need to sell  collectors (& I'm one of them) are pretty picky regarding spots. However if the coin is a tough one to get hold of I'd still buy it with minimal spotting to complete a set.

[CollectorNo1]

I dont doubt you for a second what you say @motorbikez I have never seen or heard of a coin getting a 70 with milkspots but I havnt seen every coin minted 😆 If a very rare, low mintage ultra desirable Silver coin was submitted to a grading company maybe the odd spot wouldn't take away the grade they believe it deserves for its overall condition and rarity.  But for a low premium common coin I would think it would be very difficult to achieve a high grade. Like you I'm very picky with my PM's and also I don't believe it's worth the money to get coins graded unless it's something very special. I personally would only get Gold coins graded..but that's just my opinion.

regards.

[SilverJacks]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, I think I’ll just send them off anyway and see what happens… if I avoid the details notation I’ll be happy…

[Gordy]

6 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Thanks for your thoughts guys, I think I’ll just send them off anyway and see what happens… if I avoid the details notation I’ll be happy…

Curiosity is getting the better of you isn't it? 😂

[CollectorNo1]

12 minutes ago, Gordy said:

Curiosity is getting the better of you isn't it? 😂

Be sure to let us know how you get on..

[SilverJacks]

1 hour ago, Gordy said:

Curiosity is getting the better of you isn't it? 😂

Yep 😂

1 hour ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Be sure to let us know how you get on..

Sent. Will report back in a while...

[Pete]

3 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

From most angles they can't be seen but when condensation forms from the heat from my fingers through the capsule, they show quite prominently.

That's a bit concerning as there shouldn't be any moisture inside the capsule.
Condensation is usually detected if you receive say a tube of silver in mid winter when the package has dropped to low temperature.
If you then open the tube indoors where it is humid and warm then condensation forms on the highly thermally conductive coins.
This is why it is best to leave your tube closed for several hours to ensure the contents have reached room temperature.
I don't understand why heating the outside of a capsule with your fingers would show condensation unless your coin is kept in the fridge.
Maybe open the capsule and leave it to warm up and remove any moisture before recapping.

[SilverJacks]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

That's a bit concerning as there shouldn't be any moisture inside the capsule.
Condensation is usually detected if you receive say a tube of silver in mid winter when the package has dropped to low temperature.
If you then open the tube indoors where it is humid and warm then condensation forms on the highly thermally conductive coins.
This is why it is best to leave your tube closed for several hours to ensure the contents have reached room temperature.
I don't understand why heating the outside of a capsule with your fingers would show condensation unless your coin is kept in the fridge.
Maybe open the capsule and leave it to warm up and remove any moisture before recapping.

yeah I didn't make it clear that it's with the lid off. Whichever way I held the coin, through one half of the capsule so as not to touch the coin itself, that's where condensation would form.

Appreciate your thoughts, I don't think the coin temperature could've been changed much as I assume it was room temp or thereabouts. Maybe I could run my hands under cold tap since they were probably particularly warm...

[Arganto]

Maybe the grading company could correct the spotting with conservation? Has anyone put a coin in for conservation and had success in the process correcting 'milk spots'? 

These companies must use some form of ultrasonic cleaning, so it's possible that their 'trade secret' methods work to some degree on silver leprosy...

[CollectorNo1]

1 minute ago, Liam84 said:

Maybe the grading company could correct the spotting with conservation? Has anyone put a coin in for conservation and had success in the process correcting 'milk spots'? 

These companies must use some form of ultrasonic cleaning, so it's possible that their 'trade secret' methods work to some degree on silver leprosy...

Once you pay for conservation then grading..Postage...you will be paying out more than the coins worth..🙄🙄😉

[SilverJacks]

I've asked Louise from @CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions for her opinion when they arrive. Quite intrigued to hear her thoughts... 

[pricha]

This is what NGC say on milk spots . It pretty much answers all the questions .

https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/coins-we-grade/white-spots/

[TeaTime]

NGC states 'Larger and more distracting spots will result in lower grades.....Heavily spotted coins may receive an NGC Details Grade with an Environmental Damage notation' and to get a 70 designation -'NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification'..... So what happens if the white spots occur as part of the production process and the coin is otherwise mint ?

As for letting white spots on rarer coins get a free pass but penalising high mintage modern coins for the same issues - If that were true then the whole grading process would be a farce. The grade should bear no relevance to the scarcity of the coin, only the condition.

[CollectorNo1]

2 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

NGC states 'Larger and more distracting spots will result in lower grades.....Heavily spotted coins may receive an NGC Details Grade with an Environmental Damage notation' and to get a 70 designation -'NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification'..... So what happens if the white spots occur as part of the production process and the coin is otherwise mint ?

As for letting white spots on rarer coins get a free pass but penalising high mintage modern coins for the same issues - If that were true then the whole grading process would be a farce. The grade should bear no relevance to the scarcity of the coin, only the condition.

Thanks,will bear that in mind.

Regards

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, TeaTime said:

were true then the whole grading process would be a farce.

Not knocking what people do for themselves, but as grading appears to be quite subjective this is one of the reasons I personally don't bother with graded coins. Farcical may be a touch mean but it's certainly not a clear cut process. Unless they're a steal price-wise of course 😜

[SilverJacks]

I kept a 2oz silver Three Graces raw and today noticed tiny bits of debris in the capsule because of the jagged edge on the coin grinding against the plastic capsule, and I barely moved the coin around for it to happen. It's not like a went rolling it down my stairs like a slinky

From now on, I'd try to grade all numismatic coins quickly whenever possible, just because I think it decreases the chance of damaging them.

Edited August 23, 2021 by SilverJacks

[Dazzlinh]

I sent my 2oz Completer Proof for grading and conversation recently. Milk spot just by the ‘Z’. Will let you know the result.

I waited a whole month for an appointment and only saw the spot while at NGC 😞

[CollectorNo1]

That's a shame....more than likely come back with a Details grade 🙄

[motorbikez]

48 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

That's a shame....more than likely come back with a Details grade 🙄

It's not heavily spotted so I think it will grade normally, one spot is not a big problem re grading.

[CollectorNo1]

1 hour ago, motorbikez said:

It's not heavily spotted so I think it will grade normally, one spot is not a big problem re grading.

Fingers crossed 🤞

[SilverMike]

22 hours ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Once you pay for conservation then grading..Postage...you will be paying out more than the coins worth..🙄🙄😉

worth pointing out, NGC only conserve if they deem it will improve the coin, even if you have asked for it. NGC only charge a small handling fee if they decide not to conserve.

[CollectorNo1]

2 hours ago, motorbikez said:

It's not heavily spotted so I think it will grade normally, one spot is not a big problem 

Ngc/Ncs do state on their website they don't attempt to clean milkspots as it would do more damage to the coin. They must of attempted conserving coins in the past with Milkspots without success, so now they avoid conserving bullion with this problem.