Selling on the forum..............and HMRC

[Bars]

Has anyone on here had any enquires from HMRC about selling they've done on the forum? Would it arouse suspicion if say you were making 2-3 sales a month and making over a £1000 in the tax year? I understand everyone has a £1000 trading allowance and if earn above this, HMRC have to be notified - but how does it work vis a vis CGT free coins. Are they exempt from the trading allowance or are they exempt from capital gains tax only?.......

Thanks in advance!

[TringSilver]

Did you forget to mention you were asking for a friend ? 😁

[Gordy]

For the taxman to query about selling on here they would need to have knowledge of your membership and then gain your personal details from the forum to be able to question sales on here and members are from all over the world, i'm self employed so i can just add any profits onto my accounts if needed..  

[Bars]

1 hour ago, TringSilver said:

Did you forget to mention you were asking for a friend ? 😁

Oh bugger did i miss that out 🤔 lol 

This doesn’t apply to me tbf, just something i wondered about, especially regarding CGT coins

[BackyardBullion]

2 hours ago, Bars said:

Has anyone on here had any enquires from HMRC about selling they've done on the forum? Would it arouse suspicion if say you were making 2-3 sales a month and making over a £1000 in the tax year? I understand everyone has a £1000 trading allowance and if earn above this, HMRC have to be notified - but how does it work vis a vis CGT free coins. Are they exempt from the trading allowance or are they exempt from capital gains tax only?.......

Thanks in advance!

The following is not financial advice, only my opinions and interpretations, I would suggest seeking professional financial advice if you are unsure. 

Have a read of these badges of trade from HMRC. 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim20205

If you are just selling your own coins as a collector/investor you don't have anything to declare as trading. It would all work as selling assets so profits over the CGT threshold would need to be declared. CGT coins do not need to be included in those calculations. 

[BackyardBullion]

2 hours ago, Bars said:

Has anyone on here had any enquires from HMRC about selling they've done on the forum? Would it arouse suspicion if say you were making 2-3 sales a month and making over a £1000 in the tax year? I understand everyone has a £1000 trading allowance and if earn above this, HMRC have to be notified - but how does it work vis a vis CGT free coins. Are they exempt from the trading allowance or are they exempt from capital gains tax only?.......

Thanks in advance!

If you are trading then CGT exemption would not apply. 

So, if your business is buying cheap Britannia's and selling them for a £1/oz profit as a business then this is taxable and needs to be declared.

If they are an asset and held as an asset and sold as an asset then CGT applies. 

[BackyardBullion]

Last thing I will add, that £1000 is not profit, its turnover. 

So if you are making £1/oz profit on your britannia flipping business you would be fine to sell approximately 33 Britannia's before your turnover went over £1000 and you would have to register with HMRC, not £1000 profit off £30,000 turnover

Turnover is the entire sell price remember. 

[sixgun]

4 hours ago, Bars said:

Has anyone on here had any enquires from HMRC about selling they've done on the forum? Would it arouse suspicion if say you were making 2-3 sales a month and making over a £1000 in the tax year? I understand everyone has a £1000 trading allowance and if earn above this, HMRC have to be notified - but how does it work vis a vis CGT free coins. Are they exempt from the trading allowance or are they exempt from capital gains tax only?.......

Thanks in advance!

i would say the vast majority of people here are not trading - they aren't buying stuff to sell on. They collect bits and pieces, they change their minds, they rearrange their collections. 

So there is the £1000 turnover of online sales / year / person. 
There is also the sale of chattels - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chattels-and-capital-gains-tax-hs293-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs293-chattels-and-capital-gains-tax-2019

Chattels are your personal items - it could be furniture, jewellery, coins, bars clothes, paintings, pots and pans.....
 

Quote

You only need to include in your tax return any gain on the disposal of a chattel where the disposal proceeds were more than £6,000 and the chattel is not exempt from CGT.

Now read this carefully - HMRC says you 'need' (need - since when would i need) to declare GAINS on the disposal of chattels where the proceeds are more than £6000 AND the chattel is not exempt from CGT.

So let's run over an imaginary situation were as i remember all your coins are UK coins and so exempt from CGT. At that point you can go back to sleep.

Plus of course if you are also acting on behalf of your wife, mother, father, brother, blah blah for some of the sales and then you can lump in their allowances for chattels. 
We must also remember your CGT allowance of £12,300 and as always you are selling on behalf of family members as well.

Really when you start thinking outside the box and not like a slave for the vast major of members who are not traders there should be no need to be paying tax to Her Majesty's thieves and pirates. So you sell as Jim Smith an ordinary bloke who isn't doing this as a trade, business - just a hobby that all his family is involved in.

ps - Now i am reading further on - as we see HMRC say you need to declare gains from the sale of A chattel which realised more than £6000 and was subject to CGT. It says a chattel which means ONE chattel. It says on the webpage that if you sell a set of chattels, the set counts as A chattel.
So if you sold a set of coins as one item it would count if it was more than £6000. So if you sold a chattel (or set this week) and then some other chattel next week these would be separate chattels and it resets the counter. Seems to me unless gold goes to the Moon no-one here who isn't trading and we aren't traders here - we're hobbyists, it is going to be hard to breach the chattel threshold and we can forget this matter.

Edited July 27, 2021 by sixgun

[Bars]

1 hour ago, BackyardBullion said:

Last thing I will add, that £1000 is not profit, its turnover. 

So if you are making £1/oz profit on your britannia flipping business you would be fine to sell approximately 33 Britannia's before your turnover went over £1000 and you would have to register with HMRC, not £1000 profit off £30,000 turnover

Turnover is the entire sell price remember. 

Thank you, you’ve answered that thoroughly 

[Bars]

Thanks for all the advice, on the phone to my m8 now

[Bars]

59 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i would say the vast majority of people here are not trading - they aren't buying stuff to sell on. They collect bits and pieces, they change their minds, they rearrange their collections. 

So there is the £1000 turnover of online sales / year / person. 
There is also the sale of chattels - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chattels-and-capital-gains-tax-hs293-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs293-chattels-and-capital-gains-tax-2019

Chattels are you person items - it could be furniture, jewellery, coins, bars clothes, paintings, pots and pans.....
 

Now read this carefully - HMRC says you 'need' (need - since when would i need) to declare GAINS on the disposal of chattels where the proceeds are more than £6000 AND the chattel is not exempt from CGT.

So let's run over an imaginary situation were as i remember all your coins are UK coins and so exempt from CGT. At that point you can go back to sleep.

Plus of course if you are also acting on behalf of your wife, mother, father, brother, blah blah for some of the sales and then you can lump in their allowances for chattels. 
We must also remember your CGT allowance of £12,300 and as always you are selling on behalf of family members as well.

Really when you start thinking outside the box and not like a slave for the vast major of members who are not traders there should be no need to be paying tax to Her Majesty's thieves and pirates. So you sell as Jim Smith an ordinary bloke who isn't doing this as a trade, business - just a hobby that all his family is involved in.

ps - Now i am reading further on - as we see HMRC say you need to declare gains from the sale of A chattel which realised more than £6000 and was subject to CGT. It says a chattel which means ONE chattel. It says on the webpage that if you sell a set of chattels, the set counts as A chattel.
So if you sold a set of coins as one item it would count if it was more than £6000. So if you sold a chattel (or set this week) and then some other chattel next week these would be separate chattels and it resets the counter. Seems to me unless gold goes to the Moon no-one here who isn't trading and we aren't traders here - we're hobbyists, it is going to be hard to breach the chattel threshold and we can forget this matter.

Very interesting read, wasn’t aware of chattels. Thank you 

[Zhorro]

I've just received an email from the Royal Mint with a link on the topic of "Gold Bullion Coins & Capital Gains Tax":

https://www.royalmint.com/gold-price/capital-gains-tax-on-investments/?__ja=tsid%3a38667|kw%3aE22P36B&utm_medium=email&utm_source=content&utm_campaign=2021-07-prm-cgt-explained&utm_content=product-main-cta1&ca=34366869&mc=E22P36B

[Minimalist]

On 27/07/2021 at 19:15, sixgun said:

Plus of course if you are also acting on behalf of your wife, mother, father, brother, blah blah for some of the sales and then you can lump in their allowances for chattels. 
We must also remember your CGT allowance of £12,300 and as always you are selling on behalf of family members as well.

I love it when I sell for my family and friends.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Minimalist

[HerefordBullyun]

I rarely sell and then I give it away, I dont own any PM's. No point in having any - so the taxman cant get his hands on it in crisis. All my pictures on here just stock ones and just virtual NFT images.... 👍🐮

Edited October 5, 2021 by HerefordBullyun

[Minimalist]

3 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

I rarely sell and then I give it away, I dont own any PM's. No point in having any - so the taxman cant get his hands on it in crisis. All my pictures on here just stock ones and just virtual NFT images.... 👍🐮