Sovereign Photo Thread...

[Charliemouse]

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

No.  It's a slider control on the screen where you can explicitly set the focus.  'Pro' mode turns off the auto-focus.

Ah ok.  Well, it's still 'electronic', since there will be a stepper motor involved, and hence finite.  You might be better off physically moving the phone then, especially if you have a tripod that can move smoothly.

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

Unfortunately the macro lens doesn't have any focusing control of its own.  It's literally just a lens on a clip roughly the shape of a clothes peg that clips over the phone.

Actually, that's probably fortunate.  It would be fighting the focus of the phone unless you were in macro mode.  Of course, it also means you are stuck with the tolerances of manufacture.

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

This is a phrase I've seen before.  I have Adobe CS6 Design Standard (includes Photoshop) and can remote control the camera via PC link if needed.  Can you explain a 5 minute version of how to do focus stacking?

You can focus stack manually or automatically, depending on the features of the camera.

For automatic, modern cameras (I don't know if any phones have this feature, but I guess it could be software driven, so maybe an app?) can be programmed to take a series of shots, adjusting the focus slightly between each one.  For manual, you just take the series of shots yourself.  Personally, I usually do it manually unless there is a lot of depth - for a face on coin, you might need about 3 to 6 shots, but something like a bar or edge on coin may need 40-100.

How you take the shots is one thing, but focus stacking is really about post-processing.  Recent versions of Photoshop have a feature to do it, or you can use third-party apps.  7 Best Focus Stacking Software in 2022 (fixthephoto.com)

You copy all your photos into it, press a button and it does magic to blend them into one sharp image.

[Silverlocks]

39 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

Ah ok.  Well, it's still 'electronic', since there will be a stepper motor involved, and hence finite.  You might be better off physically moving the phone then, especially if you have a tripod that can move smoothly.

Sadly the tripod is a bit shonky but the focus can be adjusted reasonably finely I think.  According to t'interwebs CS6 supports focus stacking.

 

39 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

You can focus stack manually or automatically, depending on the features of the camera.

For automatic, modern cameras (I don't know if any phones have this feature, but I guess it could be software driven, so maybe an app?) can be programmed to take a series of shots, adjusting the focus slightly between each one.  For manual, you just take the series of shots yourself.  Personally, I usually do it manually unless there is a lot of depth - for a face on coin, you might need about 3 to 6 shots, but something like a bar or edge on coin may need 40-100.

I've not seen any evidence of a software control for this on the phone's camera app, nor of a built-in focus stacking feature.  I suppose it's possible you can get third party apps that can do it on the phone.  However, the remote control software lets me tweak it from the PC without touching the phone so it's easy enough to take several shots manually.

The other thing I might try and do is to turn down the flat lighting from Dr. Daves Dohickey and get more specular reflection on the coin from another light.  I did manage to take this picture a month or two ago, which shows the lustre of the coin really well, although it was a huge faff to get it, and I was still having a lot of trouble with the focus.   I think I will still try to use Dr. Daves Dohickey and try and set the light low enough to flood out the reflection of the camera, but not so flat that I can't get some specular reflection on the coin.  Or, try and set up a shot like this and use focus stacking to get everything sharp. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Silverlocks

[Charliemouse]

2 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

Sadly the tripod is a bit shonky but the focus can be adjusted reasonably finely I think. 

It could be sub-millimetre DOF, so good luck.

2 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

According to t'interwebs CS6 supports focus stacking.

Quick tutorial:

1. Load the individual images as layers of the same image.
2. Select all the layers.
3. Edit | Auto-align layers.  Choose the Auto Projection option.  That should account for any small differences in the alignment between shots.
4. Edit | Auto-blend layers.  Choose Stack Images.

You should now have a single layer which is the combination of the best of the others.

[Silverlocks]

18 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

It could be sub-millimetre DOF, so good luck.

 

That could go a long way to explaining why it's so hit-and-miss. 

Can you recommend a desktop tripod, perhaps with a spirit level .  I have a clip that holds a smart phone and has a standard screw mount on the end, so one can dangle it out over open space and get the camera lens up close and personal.  I have a space on my desk in front of the monitor about 50x90cm that the whole kaboodle needs to fit into in order to use it with my PC; I got the little octopus tripod because it was small, as much as anything else.  I don't know if there is such a thing as a prosumer desktop tripod or octopus tripod; they all seem to come with price tags that imply that they're fairly cheap and nasty.

I know my kit is more in the influencer space than anything resembling aspirations to serious photographic accomplishment, but I'm really in the business of trying to make this work before I spend any large amount of money on photographic kit.   

Edited December 9, 2022 by Silverlocks

[Charliemouse]

44 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Can you recommend a desktop tripod, perhaps with a spirit level .

For what you are trying to do, you need to invest in something like:

Neewer Pro 4-Way Macro Focusing Focus Rail Slider

And then a small metal tripod that can hold it.  Neewer make small desktop tripods.  I rate the brand, as they make reasonable quality stuff at a good price.  I personally use that macro head, but on a much bigger tripod on the floor, to give a rock-solid platform for a DSLR.  I have not tried their tripods, but you would need an all-metal construction, height adjustable but with wide legs for stability.  Your preference should be towards extending the legs rather than the centre column - much more stable.  That said, the centre column might get in the way since you are photographing downwards.  The ideal for this is a column-less tripod, or one that allows you to remove the column.

The good news is that the macro head will transfer to a grown-up tripod for when you want to do other things.

The head and tripod together are going to cost you around £100 minimum.  Anything less than that is not going to cut it for quality.  Tripods are definitely a get-what-you-pay-for thing.  Buy cheap, buy twice.  Neewer are the lowest quality brand I would buy a tripod from.  I can recommend many others, if you want to invest.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Charliemouse

[Silverlocks]

1 hour ago, Charliemouse said:

For what you are trying to do, you need to invest in something like:

Neewer Pro 4-Way Macro Focusing Focus Rail Slider

And then a small metal tripod that can hold it.  Neewer make small desktop tripods.  I rate the brand, as they make reasonable quality stuff at a good price.  I personally use that macro head, but on a much bigger tripod on the floor, to give a rock-solid platform for a DSLR.  I have not tried their tripods, but you would need an all-metal construction, height adjustable but with wide legs for stability.  Your preference should be towards extending the legs rather than the centre column - much more stable.  That said, the centre column might get in the way since you are photographing downwards.  The ideal for this is a column-less tripod, or one that allows you to remove the column.

The good news is that the macro head will transfer to a grown-up tripod for when you want to do other things.

The head and tripod together are going to cost you around £100 minimum.  Anything less than that is not going to cut it for quality.  Tripods are definitely a get-what-you-pay-for thing.  Buy cheap, buy twice.  Neewer are the lowest quality brand I would buy a tripod from.  I can recommend many others, if you want to invest.

This sort of stuff sounds reachable out of pocket.  What's really out of the question is a DSLR camera and a fancy macro lens.

[Charliemouse]

2 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

This sort of stuff sounds reachable out of pocket.  What's really out of the question is a DSLR camera and a fancy macro lens.

Can I quote you in a few years?

[Silverlocks]

6 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

Can I quote you in a few years?

Hopefully in a few years I will have paid the plague of locusHMRC their dues so I could afford some nice toys.  Hopefully in a few years I will also have many shiny things to take nice photos of.

[Petra]

Any chance of some pics of sovereigns on here?🤔🫢🫢

[modofantasma]

16 minutes ago, Petra said:

Any chance of some pics of sovereigns on here?🤔🫢🫢

 

[Petra]

33 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

 

👍👍😮😮 look great!

[SheepStacker]

58 minutes ago, Petra said:

Any chance of some pics of sovereigns on here?🤔🫢🫢

 

[Silverlocks]

I see you got one.

[SheepStacker]

7 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I see you got one.

When I set my sights on something, it's usually inevitable. Even if I overpay as a consequence of my hubris.

[Petra]

1 hour ago, SheepStacker said:

 

Great pic 

[SheepStacker]

Another recent purchase. The reverse ruins this. Explains why I got it cheap.

[Silverlocks]

Dunno, the reverse has some bag marks but it's not that badly worn.  Most of the detail is visible so it would get at least a gVF.  The obverse has some visible wear but you can still see most of the detail in Vic's hair.   It's not bad, about gVF also.  In grading terms the dings wouldn't adversely affect a coin in the VF range; for an EF you want to be able to see the original finish and all the detail, but the odd dings are still considered acceptable.  Gillicks, for example, are usually in pretty good nick with their satin finish intact and most would be EF or better even though they still have some minor handling marks.  Within reason, handling marks only matter a lot when you get to AU range grades.

I'm not sure what the marks on the reverse are, but they might be just dirt.  Hard core numismatists might be horrified but try swabbing it gently with a bit of acetone or isopropyl alcohol on a cotton bud and see if it comes off.

[SheepStacker]

1 minute ago, Silverlocks said:

the reverse has some bag marks but it's not that badly worn. 

Sadly you can't see the gash in a photo. This is noticeably deep.

[SheepStacker]

higher res

[Silverlocks]

Pity about that.  

[SheepStacker]

16 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Pity about that.  

Par for the course when you're hunting for 19th century coins on a budget, I suppose.

[refero]

3 hours ago, Petra said:

Any chance of some pics of sovereigns on here?🤔🫢🫢

yeah seriously guys, this should be an only pics section... 

Edited December 9, 2022 by refero

[SheepStacker]

Few more Shields...

[Charliemouse]

15 hours ago, Petra said:

Any chance of some pics of sovereigns on here?🤔🫢🫢

12 hours ago, refero said:

yeah seriously guys, this should be an only pics section... 

We are discussing photographing them, and there isn't a section that's really appropriate for that other than completely generic threads.

But fair enough.  Does this count?

[Silverlocks]

So, here's the 1877 shield again, now taken with software that supports focus stacking (Open Camera and Photoshop CS6).  I got an adjustable gantry for macro photography at the suggeston of @Charliemouse and it's doing a spiffing job.  Not super dear, either.  Between this low-profile tripod, the gantry and a bracket for holding a smart phone it's about £100 worth of kit.  I also got a bigger tripod that cost another £50 or so, but I haven't needed that yet.  This was also taken in @DrDave's light box gizmo, which has a pane of glass tilted at 45° angle to reflect light coming in from the side straight down on the coin.  I can just manoeuvre the macro lens on the phone into position on the coin and shoot through it. The furthest-away photo (basically the outside of the coin) wasn't quite perfectly focused but it's much better than before.  The inner one has captured the detail on the shield very nicely.  Contrast diddled a bit in photoshop after merging the layers for focus stacking, and definitely better than the focus I was getting earlier.  Shout out to @Charliemouse for the tips and to @DrDave for the dohickey. Next step: improve the colour saturation - although we've captured the detail (you can zoom in quite a long way) the coin looks a bit washed out and is definitely more yellow in person.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Silverlocks