Goldsilver.be refuse to send my order?

[Mcgrimes]

@Kleiner - Can I cancel my order

GS.be - Of course, have a nice day.

@Kleiner - Can I place a larger order?

GS.be - Ofcourse, please pay immediately

@Kleiner - Here’s 9k, wire transferred

GS.be - That’ll be another €390, pay it or lose everything

Some members of this forum - OP at fault!

My opinion - GS.be are acting unlawfully, according to their terms they should have cancelled the order within 1hour! Anyone who defends their actions should be ashamed. The OP requested a cancellation, and irrespective of his reasons, they accepted (formally through email!). 

Also GS.be : In the event of the buyer failing to proceed to payment by email for the order following the instructions on the Website and within the deadline of an hour of the confirmation of the order by the vendor, the order will be automatically and irrevocably cancelled.

Source

[airmac]

The way I'm seeing it, is they have a right to damages. That in my opinion is not the discussion. 

My problem is, in 3 months they have not sent a bill for damages. Personally if it was me I would have paid the bill before the order if I had known about it. We all work on budgets, so knowing I had a bill to pay  I may not have ordered for that month then, and paid instead.

Now they wait till they get a large sum of money for an order they accepted and then tell the customer you can only have your goods after paying a bill we made several days after the order. That for me is not acceptable. It gives the impression they were waiting for a possibility to blackmail him and therefore waited. I say impression because I don't know they're thoughts.

But it definitely isn't transparency or good customer service in my opinion.

[Mcgrimes]

1 hour ago, airmac said:

The way I'm seeing it, is they have a right to damages.

What damages? And no, they don’t, they waived their right to anything when they agreed to cancel the order stipulating it was no problem.

As per their own terms and conditions, they cancel any unpaid ordered after an hour - apparently they failed to follow their own conditions.

If you are able to quantify their damages, please do proceed - please do not speculate, as that would just be pointless.

[engire]

I assume that all bullion dealers work with futures and other kinds of derivatives to cover themselves for fluctuations in spot prices in almost real time. If they sell something, they can close the linked positions because coverage is no longer needed. If I remember correctly from earlier in the topic the order was cancelled after about 8 hours, so the positions would have been closed. Enough time for loss to accumulate.

Whether that accumulates to 390 euros, I don't know, but enough ways they could have incurred losses.

[airmac]

5 minutes ago, Mcgrimes said:

What damages? And no, they don’t, they waived their right to anything when they agreed to cancel the order stipulating it was no problem.

As per their own terms and conditions, they cancel any unpaid ordered after an hour - apparently they failed to follow their own conditions.

If you are able to quantify their damages, please do proceed - please do not speculate, as that would just be pointless.

But what we all are doing is speculating or do you have all and every transcript? I'm not trying to be an armchair lawyer, as I have no legal degrees. I'm just stating my opinion to the situation. They wrote to him this creates damages to gs.be . Ok, so maybe it does, I don't know. But then they should send a detailed bill afterwards, that's my point. Not wait and then blackmail. If it was done properly imo we wouldn't even be discussing it. 

I'm not trying to argue, just saying what I see and think.

[Mcgrimes]

9 minutes ago, engire said:

I assume that all bullion dealers work with futures and other kinds of derivatives to cover themselves for fluctuations in spot prices in almost real time. If they sell something, they can close the linked positions because coverage is no longer needed. If I remember correctly from earlier in the topic the order was cancelled after about 8 hours, so the positions would have been closed. Enough time for loss to accumulate.

Whether that accumulates to 390 euros, I don't know, but enough ways they could have incurred losses.

They are shipping items from stock, there is no damage. In any case, why would they close a position until they had received payment, as the terms explicitly state they will. GS.be made a mistake (potentially) and are trying to (unjustly) recover from @Kleiner.

What really frustrates me about all these posts is that we, as consumers, are protected by Law. Why is anyone trying to justify the actions of GS.be? Certainly in the absence of any wrong doing by @Kleiner.

I Appreciate the ethical questions, I really do. If I commissioned @BackyardBullionto make a piece, who then consumed precious time based on an instruction and promise of payment for me to later retract my order, then I expect he is entitled, by Law, to some damages. 

Did GS.be pack the order? Did they place an order for additional stock, which they then cancelled? I highly doubt it. In any case, @Kleineracted within the Law, and in my opinion, did not act unfairly or with an alterior motive against GS.be.

Guys, stop arguing against the Law that’s intended to protect us.

[Mcgrimes]

15 minutes ago, airmac said:

But what we all are doing is speculating or do you have all and every transcript? 

I appreciate your point, we definitely don’t have all the facts.

But, I’m trying to remove any speculation, @Kleiner had every right to cancel his order, whilst GS.be have no right to blackmail him.

Edit: Assuming we’ve been told the truth of course!😉

[airmac]

1 minute ago, Mcgrimes said:

I appreciate your point, we definitely don’t have all the facts.

But, I’m trying to remove any speculation, @Kleiner had every right to cancel his order, whilst GS.be have no right to blackmail him.

Edit: Assuming we’ve been told the truth of course!😉

And that's what I been saying the whole time, maybe not expressing myself correctly. Since there is no debt till there is a bill, and saying pay so much is not a bill. Also one item has nothing to do with the other. The order was accepted, paid for and not shipped. The other item is the cancelling for which they never sent a detailed bill on which any discussions between OP and gs.be could be based on. They did not before accepting his order say he will not receive it till any damages are paid for which you have not received a bill. 

The other thing I was wondering about in the beginning is the sum of 390. Is this solely based on the loss or did they add penalties to it for nonpayment of the bill they never sent. I don't know what the actual damages are, they may only be pennies and they added because of not paying a bill that was never sent or if they just said 390 sounds like a good number for today. An order was originally placed and then asked to change, they decided to cancel but warned of damages. Ok, now show in a bill what those damages are if any. That is also the way it should be, then if an agreement cant be reached for payment there is the legal procedures for whichever side. Not this mafia style blackmail. Also wouldn't there be some kind of prescription time for how long before you can even claim damages?

[BackyardBullion]

34 minutes ago, Mcgrimes said:

I Appreciate the ethical questions, I really do. If I commissioned @BackyardBullionto make a piece, who then consumed precious time based on an instruction and promise of payment for me to later retract my order, then I expect he is entitled, by Law, to some damages. 

 

I have had a few situations like this, it annoys me a little if I have put in some R&D time and or actuall work - but I have not pursued it with customers as I think it would do more damage than good - just like this thread will lose GS.be a lot of business I have no doubt.

I do take deposits much more now - just as a peace of mind that someone is a serious buyer. Ultimately though I tend to have too much faith in the "gentlemen's (& Ladies!) agreement" principal and would probably refund if there was a sticky situation - in my opinion the difference in lost reputation from being funny about these things would far outweigh a kept deposit on a comission piece 😉.

27 minutes ago, Mcgrimes said:

 

😉What really frustrates me about all these posts is that we, as consumers, are protected by Law. Why is anyone trying to justify the actions of GS.be? Certainly in the absence of any wrong doing by @Kleiner.

The OP is not faultless in this situation - as bad as the actions of GS.be are (and I fully agree that they are acting appallingly, spitefully and borderline illegally!) They are all the making of @Kleiner not having the funds ready and changing his order and perhaps a little bit of "lost in translation" between him and them in that initial exchange where he asked to change the order.

 

[Mcgrimes]

22 minutes ago, airmac said:

Also wouldn't there be some kind of prescription time for how long before you can even claim damages?

In this case, I’m not certain they have right to any damages? I’m also no expert in Law, though I did read parts of the consumer act when I complained about Lloyds finance.

11 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

The OP is not faultless in this situation - as bad as the actions of GS.be are (and I fully agree that they are acting appallingly, spitefully and borderline illegally!) They are all the making of @Kleiner not having the funds ready and changing his order and perhaps a little bit of "lost in translation" between him and them in that initial exchange where he asked to change the order.

 

I appreciate that this particular issue was due to @Kleinerplacing an order,  but in reality it could be anyone.

@BackyardBullion - I am sorry for using you as a subject in my argument, you are a well liked and respected figure and I ought to have shown a bit more respect. I Used you as an example of when actual damages may have been accrued and when both legally and ethically you would be entitled to commercial recompense, but should have used a fictitious company; again, sorry for this link.

In any case, I blame @Kleiner for engaging my focus, the weekend shouldn’t be for arguments with my fellow hoarders! 😉

I’ll refrain from posting my ‘serious’ comments now, and argue with those who are paid to withstand my nonsense in the office tomorrow!

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, Mcgrimes said:

In this case, I’m not certain they have right to any damages? I’m also no expert in Law, though I did read parts of the consumer act when I complained about Lloyds finance.

I appreciate that this particular issue was due to @Kleinerplacing an order,  but in reality it could be anyone.

@BackyardBullion - I am sorry for using you as a subject in my argument, you are a well liked and respected figure and I ought to have shown a bit more respect. I Used you as an example of when actual damages may have been accrued and when both legally and ethically you would be entitled to commercial recompense, but should have used a fictitious company; again, sorry for this link.

In any case, I blame @Kleiner for engaging my focus, the weekend shouldn’t be for arguments with my fellow hoarders! 😉

I’ll refrain from posting my ‘serious’ comments now, and argue with those who are paid to withstand my nonsense in the office tomorrow!

I didn't think an apology was needed, we are all just sharing opinions here, nothing more! 

[Kleiner]

1. I did not ask for cancelling of my order. Rather I asked to change it.
2. How much was the change? Well my original order was a sum of 11600 euro. I wanted to buy exact same coins but less., - 9000 euro. 
The difference was 2600 euro. They could have said. Okej, but since you wanna change the contract you have to pay 25 euro fee. That would be okej for me.

As it is already known, they did not do that. They cancelled my order and said nothing.
Then three moths later I do a new order - guess what - they take my order in ransom. Are you okej with that?

Is the way they act proportional?
Furthermore, unlike GS, I am willing to talk in a sensible way.

[Gildeon]

My take of the issue in a few bullets:

• Customer places order without having the money - not smart
• Customer says afterwards he doesn't have the whole funds - bad
• Seller cancels the order without any further discussion - their right I suppose
• Seller sends a vague message that it was damaging to them - no specified amount, justification or any request for payment
• Nothing happens for a few months...
• Customer sends a new order - their right
• Seller accepts the order sending confirmation - fine so far
• Seller withholds the biggest part of the order, requesting compensation - starting to get dodgy
• Seller mentions an amount later for the first time, without any analysis - not professional
• Seller continues not to send the rest of the order, with value much higher than the disputed amount - bordering to the illegal
• Seller replies customer questions and comments with irony and insults - APPALLING! 

Of course there is a percentage of blame in both parties, as in many cases in life. But the tone (except the actions) of GS.be is totally unacceptable for me. And I am surprised with arguments like "I never had a problem myself" or "they are the cheapest so we will continue". If the same people have a problem themselves in the future, how would they feel seeing such responses? The only protection we have from such practices, is our communication here and any other media for customer voice. 

In the end the only counter argument can be "they are the cheapest so I will continue buying, taking my risks if there is any problem. And I refrain from my moral right to complain if something similar happens to myself!"

[vanderPoot]

7 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

I admit that I was wrong, no question about it. 

The thread didn't start that way

On 12/10/2018 at 20:49, Kleiner said:

Hi,

Several month ago I made an order but regret it almost directly. Contacted GS and they canceled the order and said: "I've cancelled your last order. Please keep in mind that a cancellation generates costs and thus damage for GOLDSILVER.BE".

Last week I made an new order and I have already payed them (1000 Euro). Now they have shipped only 1/10 on the entire package.
Yesterday, when I asked them when my order will be shipped, they wrote to me: "One parcell will be shipped today and one parcell tomorrow.

The following day I was curios and asked them why they split up the order and why they did not ship the entire package in once?
Believe it or not they answered: "Before I leave my office to spend an excellent week, I forgot to thanks you for  the deposit. Pay for the damage from last time you cancelled the order, my friend. If not, you'll never see the rest of your order".

I mean WT*?

I mean what should I do?
Can they refuse to ship the rest of the order?
Or what if they send the package but some coins are missing? That wouldn't surprise me at all...

Best regards,
Kleiner

 

 

9 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

But is the way they act proportional?

No it isn't, it sucks man, I feel you

 

 

[whitesands1]

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 21:35, Lowlow said:

You've obviously never worked in something like construction LOL.  Try breaking a deal with someone who was going to show up at a job site and see what happens to you ... language can get "colorful" lol.

I quite often think this when someone acts in a manner that is not befitting, I get a worried look or a silence when I say; "It's just as well you don't work on a building site"

[RogerBelmar]

I agree with what everyone is saying that it’s best not to buy from this bullion dealer ever again. The founder of a very popular bullion company explained in a revealing interview how he set up his company after becoming frustrated with bullion dealers. He was initially an investor.

[Kleiner]

[Kleiner]

[greektony]

seems like GS.be has lost me as a potential customer after reading through this thread. I'm sure there are lots of other people who now feel the same way.

[FFkook]

3 minutes ago, greektony said:

seems like GS.be has lost me as a potential customer after reading through this thread. I'm sure there are lots of other people who now feel the same way.

Believe me, they don't care... 

[BackyardBullion]

I have put up a poll to see what general consensus is on boycotting GS.be in favour of EU Mint.

Well worth a look - early days yet but only about 33% would say yes to a boycott.

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

 

[kimchi]

1 hour ago, FFkook said:

Believe me, they don't care... 

I've read the whole thread from the beginning and I have to say Eva must be on hols or something, and in the light of this awful mess is very sorely missed. Come back soon Eva, all is forgiven!

If she'd replied to the original (first order) problem/dispute with a simple '**** off you idiot, never use us again you scum of the earth, we don't care about your pitiful 9000 Euro orders and you are BANNED' the OP's position would have been crystal clear, and this situation never would have arisen in the first place...

That said, I find it very concerning that this thread is so long and yet not a single person has even enquired about Christine's welfare

[Groundup]

I've never bought from goldsilver.be, I won't ever be buying from them either. Thanks to this thread and others that have been posted. I like a smooth transaction with my PM's purchases and believe that customer satisfaction is paramount, there should have been a satisfactory outcome where both parties feel honoured.

[Guest]

On 14/06/2017 at 15:08, Mariner1961 said:

Just had this 10oz beauty delivered to my door. Well packaged, correctly addressed and the security tape intact. Good effort by Goldsilver.be to make sure you get your package delivered safety as it even has a label on it stating it's medical supplies and asking that it's not delivered to a neighbour.

However, mine was indeed delivered to a neighbour with a similar house number. Not only was it delivered to a neighbour the said neighbour wasn't even in so the driver helpfully tossed it over the fence into his garden then wrote on the delivery card that he'd done just that.

Fortunately I got the package but Yodel really need to have a think about the standards they work to.

I haven't used goldsilver.be since many here including myself were having quite a few problems with them last year. Even if the OP's problem with payment/blackmail is resolved, the delivery side is comical considering we are talking bullion delivered under the pretence of "Medical Supplies" as labelled on their delivery boxes lol. Much better bullion suppliers out there.

Mariner's problem above is a typical example (hope he/she doesn't mind me quoting)

 

 

[Guest]

My experience of Goldsilver.be customer service: