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Sovereign or Krugerrand


NorthBen

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Posted

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to buying PM, but so far I've spread my money across gold and silver, and within that I've bought various different items. I'm a big fan of sovereign and half sovereign coins as they are attractive in my eyes, and are easy to liquidate should the need arise. 

However, as a slightly restless personality I get tempted by change, and I'm now considering quarter or half krugerrand as an additional part of my collection/investment. I suppose my question is...Should I stick with the Sovs or do Krugs offer an equally good investment opportunity pound for pound?

any reason to stay away from Krugs? Any reason to gather a few?

Sorry for the newby question, and thanks in advance for any feedback!

Posted

Krugs aren't tax efficient, Sovereigns are.

Sovereigns = Capital Gains Tax free.  More widely recognised in the UK, more widely collected. 

Posted

I bought a Krug as my first full ounce, mainly as it seemed to me to be the ubiquitous ounce bullion coin. I got it from hgm so only paid 2% over spot and as it is purely bullion it is nice to fiddle with "naked" without worrying about future value. There is something very satisfying feeling a ounce of gold in your hand. I think it is quite a nice design too.

I see you are thinking about a half or quarter, as long as you get it at a good price why not.

 

Edit: Clens92 makes a very good point regarding tax though, if it is likely to affect you. 

Posted

Aye, CGT shouldn't be a problem, I'm not going over that threshold for a while!

Thinking about either 2 full sovereigns or a half Krug. The bigger coin aspect of the Krug is very tempting! All being well next year I'll be able to buy a full ounce coin once or twice depending on work.

Are HGM a good place for Krugs in general? Heard a few stories of people buying from on line sellers and getting quite damaged coins....HGM were never mentioned ough.

Posted
Just now, NorthBen said:

Aye, CGT shouldn't be a problem, I'm not going over that threshold for a while!

Thinking about either 2 full sovereigns or a half Krug. The bigger coin aspect of the Krug is very tempting! All being well next year I'll be able to buy a full ounce coin once or twice depending on work.

Are HGM a good place for Krugs in general? Heard a few stories of people buying from on line sellers and getting quite damaged coins....HGM were never mentioned ough.

Mine was in pretty good nick as have all the sovereigns I have purchased from them. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, NorthBen said:

That's good to know, I reckon I'll be a new customer of thiers pretty soon. Thanks!

I wanted to add actually, I wouldn't worry about the issue of CGT, Its a yearly allowance and unless you are either a moron (and don't use ISAs for your investments) or are in the fortunate position of of owning a lot of the more exotic assets then its hard to actually profit that much from PMs. For example, if you make 10% on your gold you would need to shift 100k worth in a year, easier to split it over 2 years... 

 

Now this leads me to my next point, its not about the sell side. If you want to invest money, it doesnt mater what you buy it is always about the buy side. This means that it doesnt matter what gold you buy as long as you are prudent. Ill elaborate, if you don't want the hassle of selling to the public then your best play is to buy a full Krug at 2% and sell back to a dealer at spot minus x. making it purely a play on spot. If you don't mind selling to individuals then buy smaller and buy sovs, there will be a bigger market and you can get spot plus 3%. By doing the former you are passive and by doing the latter you are an active investor.

I hop this helps and good luck on your journey. 

Shaun

Posted

One last point before I go back to my admin work, if you are buying bullion that is all it is. I have bought and sold damaged bullion anyone who turns their nose use and yes wants bullion prices wants something for nothing and Id happily take my ball away not negotiate and sell to someone else (as gold is a very liquid item)

Posted

Thanks Shaun, some good advice there. I suppose a mix of both types wouldn't be a bad thing then. 

Posted

For bullion I don't think it matters too much, mix it up if it keeps you interested!

Just keep an eye on the premiums you're paying. Also as you're already a Premium Member you have access to the trade section as soon as listings go up - keep an eye out when you have some readies, you can get some super deals on here from trusted members - different and/or special bullion coins of potentially some numismatic value, at lower or close to the premiums you might pay a dealer for second hand/circulated bullion of no guaranteed condition :)

Posted

I vote sovereigns.

 

the cgt free argument is not so much do you care

because you are under the threshold, but does your

potential buyer care? (if a potential buyer is buying

to help save up for retirement in 20+ years, for a

similar price it's better to be safe than sorry)

sovereigns can be sold easily to both the secondary

market and to dealers. kruggerrands especially the

non fractional coins are slightly less liquid when sold

on the secondary market.

 

imo the cgt free and the smaller coin value tips

it in the sovereigns favour.

 

HH

Posted

on a side note has anyone paid the extra for the named head on HGM? are they worth the extra £5ish per coin? are they in wetter condition/better years?    i  bought a best value one a couple weeks ago and ended up with a proof 2015 so happy with that. i was lucky this time but will i hext?

Posted

What's better to buy; 4 Sovs at +3% or 1oz Brits at +2%, after considering all the issues stated above? Just for bullion savings with a plan to resell some rainy day down the years.

Posted
41 minutes ago, Jay2 said:

What's better to buy; 4 Sovs at +3% or 1oz Brits at +2%, after considering all the issues stated above? Just for bullion savings with a plan to resell some rainy day down the years.

The sovereign is clearly the better buy. You have 4 x 1/4 units of gold as compared with 1 x 1 unit. With the Britannia when it comes to selling you have to sell the whole unit. Let's imagine there is a price reset in the gold price before retirement, that is very likely, the world is not going to tick along as it is now. Say by today's standards gold were £6000/oz and everything else stayed the same. You have a big lump of value in a gold Britannia, the Britannia becomes more difficult to sell b/c it has such a large size of value. Would you need or want to sell such a big piece of gold in a repricing scenario?

Call a general election and then don't vote - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

Disclaimer: Everything I post is for entertainment purposes only - it is not to be taken seriously. There is no intent to incite violence or hate of any kind, nor do I have any intent to incite any other crime or non-crime in any country in the world. It is not my intent to slander, harass or defame anyone dead or alive. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Jay2 said:

What's better to buy; 4 Sovs at +3% or 1oz Brits at +2%, after considering all the issues stated above? Just for bullion savings with a plan to resell some rainy day down the years.

Id prefer 4 sovs

Maybe you will want to sell in the future to buy something and you would only have to sell one or two sovereigns instead of a whole 1 oz coin

Help thread for members new to silver/gold stacking/collecting

The Money Printing Myth the Fed can't and don't money print - Deflation ahead, not inflation 

Posted

It's all relative and depends how much your stacking, look at mrdead, he's buying gold by the kilo currently. Buy what catches your eye, most folks will reshuffle their stack at some point anyways. If your were  at the stage you only wanted to realise some funds from a 1 Oz coin  I am sure you could cut a deal with the likes of HGM. I.e. Sell Oz and immediately repurchase 3 sovs and take cash balance. 

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

Posted
4 hours ago, Stu said:

It's all relative and depends how much your stacking, look at mrdead, he's buying gold by the kilo currently. Buy what catches your eye, most folks will reshuffle their stack at some point anyways. If your were  at the stage you only wanted to realise some funds from a 1 Oz coin  I am sure you could cut a deal with the likes of HGM. I.e. Sell Oz and immediately repurchase 3 sovs and take cash balance. 

Personally i would not buy 1kg gold bars irrespective of how much i had to invest. I don't go over 1kg silver bars, i have dozens of these but i don't go over that size. The first thing you need to think about when you buy something is selling it. Selling 130 full sovereigns would not be much of an issue, but getting rid of a 1kg bar of gold restricts who can and will buy it. There were a couple of 100oz silver bars on the forum for sale. One sold the other did not. i asked the seller about these, i wanted the full provenance but this was not available. i left it there. i am sure the bars were genuine but i did not want the bother of having to reassure the next buyer that they were sound. The more buyers you have and the more confident they feel about the thing you are selling, the better return you are likely to get. With such low premiums of basic sovereigns i would have thought they are the first port of call. 

Call a general election and then don't vote - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

Disclaimer: Everything I post is for entertainment purposes only - it is not to be taken seriously. There is no intent to incite violence or hate of any kind, nor do I have any intent to incite any other crime or non-crime in any country in the world. It is not my intent to slander, harass or defame anyone dead or alive. 

Posted
4 hours ago, Murph said:

Yes, I wouldn't bother with the 1kg either if I had unlimited funds and would stick to the 400ozt bars. :)

The trouble with the 400 ozt bars is that they bend the shelf in your safe! You just don't get a decent safe for £19.99 anymore :-)

Posted

B&Q do cheap floor safes for £25 that are just fine, once they're set in 12" of steel reinforced concrete.

"To get to where I need to be, I start by walking away from where I am."

From the moment you are born, the number of people in the world who are older than you only ever gets smaller.

Posted

I think if you've seen one Krug you've seen them all, they look like the, beware of the deer sign where I come from.

Sovereigns, on the other hand, are much more interesting, nicer to look at and have a great history.

 

Posted
5 hours ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

B&Q do cheap floor safes for £25 that are just fine, once they're set in 12" of steel reinforced concrete.

except you could break the door with a screwdriver but if you only have krugs instead of sovs.... :)

 

Posted

probably against all logic and theories but hey  , I would like to have at least some sort of krugerand denomination in my small collection at some point:D

dean.M

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