flyingveepixie

Salve Paolo.  Those are my suspicions too and I think a big part of what they will do will be to introduce the Central Bank Digital Currency concept along with a social credit system like they have in China.  We are already seeing some social credit scenarios in a soft kind of way with bans or restrictions on social media if you say the wrong thing or voice the wrong opinion for example.  Only time and circumstance will tell how it all plays out depending on whether or not people accept it or not.  My gut instinct is that the large majority will simply go along with whatever is thrown at them just as they did with all the covid restrictions.

Those words have been spoken by many a forum member over the years!

Back up to £1495 from a low of around £1483 earlier today.  Is that the dip over I wonder..?   I was hoping to buy a couple of sovs on the cheap.. Drat.😟

Salve Paolo.  Those are my suspicions too and I think a big part of what they will do will be to introduce the Central Bank Digital Currency concept along with a social credit system like they have in China.  We are already seeing some social credit scenarios in a soft kind of way with bans or restrictions on social media if you say the wrong thing or voice the wrong opinion for example.  Only time and circumstance will tell how it all plays out depending on whether or not people accept it or not.  My gut instinct is that the large majority will simply go along with whatever is thrown at them just as they did with all the covid restrictions.

Salve Paolo.  Those are my suspicions too and I think a big part of what they will do will be to introduce the Central Bank Digital Currency concept along with a social credit system like they have in China.  We are already seeing some social credit scenarios in a soft kind of way with bans or restrictions on social media if you say the wrong thing or voice the wrong opinion for example.  Only time and circumstance will tell how it all plays out depending on whether or not people accept it or not.  My gut instinct is that the large majority will simply go along with whatever is thrown at them just as they did with all the covid restrictions.

Salve Paolo.  Those are my suspicions too and I think a big part of what they will do will be to introduce the Central Bank Digital Currency concept along with a social credit system like they have in China.  We are already seeing some social credit scenarios in a soft kind of way with bans or restrictions on social media if you say the wrong thing or voice the wrong opinion for example.  Only time and circumstance will tell how it all plays out depending on whether or not people accept it or not.  My gut instinct is that the large majority will simply go along with whatever is thrown at them just as they did with all the covid restrictions.

I am on the same line of thinking as you. In general, the power in control will never let go the control of the currency. And of course they know people will run to PM and surely they are much steps ahead and very prepared for this. Just wondering what is their plan for PM. And also i think that PM will not be let run up until the very end of the system, until then it will stay suppress. The moment PM will stop to be suppressed will be the end of the current system, which probably means an event of huge proportion, some external event to blame. First think that come in mind is a war with Russia. At that point is very likely they will confiscate metals for national emergency, or put a limit you can possess. Either way they make the rules and will never let people win, at any cost, better they destroy the world but will not lose the control of the currency. Of course better to have PM rather than not, but i dont think that we can escape their plan by simply owning metals. That is a very naive thinking. They will take everything from the people as always, using any mean possible. In a kind of reset scenario with martial law and any type of government abuse , it s very naive to think they will let you keep your metals and prosper. It would be a paradigm shift where even private property itself will be at risk. I am a stacker myself, but i am starting to realize that the same moment the fiat collapses they will make our stack illegal or just unusable. I guess they have already plan that. I think the step will be: end of manipulation---> confiscation. On the other side there is to point out one thing: we are going toward a polarized world, therefore i dont think all world will have same approach on this, but probably only the bankrupt western world, as it was for americans in 1933. 

In their malice the power mad sociopaths at JP Morgan et al will probably manipulate the silver spot price down even further than it is now if it ever comes to that ( or will they manipulate it upwards if fiat is finished..?  🤔)  . Having spent almost a full day yesterday trying to understand the economic theory and practice behind the manipulation of silver, asking questions on the silver price thread and following up with some research of my own, the results of what I found are truly disturbing.   The end result was me lying in my bed last night going through little imaginary scenarios in my head and wondering if one day when they finally inflate fiat currency to complete worthlessness, might they also decide to simply declare gold as a worthless commodity so they can continue to retain their hold on financial power by introducing cbdc's as the saviour of all...   After all, being almost completely chemically inert gold has no real use apart from making pretty jewellery and coins to look at, and only has the value it has because everyone agrees that it's so desirable and wants a piece of it,  and from the covid farce of the last two years we all know what can be achieved with a little bit of international cooperation by gullible puppets in various governments around the world.
Or alternatively they may make it illegal to hold pm as they did in the USA in the 1930s
Could/will it ever happen..?   Please discuss..

Sounds like fiat silver..!

The paper markets for metals allow miners to sell their silver today, and then supply it in a couple of months time.  So the miners in a way can be considered as shorting the market.  They are sellers.  But they don't really care what the price does after they've sold their contract to supply, because they've committed to honour the contract at that price and deliver the Silver after they've got it out the ground.
The complication comes in where other investors are allowed to trade those contracts between the miners and the consumers.  Because these are paper contracts, other investors can buy and sell those paper contracts without having to handle the dirty metal stuff at all.  That all sounds well and good if it was just like that, but it's not.  What is allowed, is for large investors to sell contracts effectively as if they were miners and going to supply, and then to close the contracts out by buying other contracts back before they have to make the delivery. The contracts come into existence and go out of existence without any of that promised future Silver ever leaving the ground.
This could obviously get a bit crazy, so its supposedly kept in check by backing the made up paper contracts against a bunch of real ounces sat in a vault in the COMEX (the exchange who make the paper contracts), just in case any of the buyers of the made up paper contracts, actually want the dirty metal.   Even that sounds sort of okay in principle, but like everything in the financial world, the further you get away from the basic deal of two people bartering a commodity amongst themselves (capitalism rather than financialism), the shadier things get.
The amount of real Silver sat in that vault backing the temporary paper you would imagine should be about 1 : 1 ratio.  But it's not.  It like bank loan leverage, and it has been allowed to climb to very high multiples.  The excuse is that no one want's the real stuff so there won't ever be a bunch of claims on it all at once.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were around 400 potential claims for every real ounce sat in that vault.  Not exactly a stable position.  This is the reason for the monkeying around near the end of a delivery month.  Sometimes, more paper contracts are blasted into existence to try to push the price around before the close.  If you can print up imaginary metal in vast amounts, you can force the paper price of that metal down, making a fortune.  It also fleeces the miners, who often end up having to sell at low prices in the subdued paper market, while the financial industry "wizards" in nice offices make bank with ones and zeros.
The system is creaking and groaning under the weight of the parasites.  It's unclear how much longer this imaginary future product market can continue.  The leverage is what makes it a joke.  It's unfixable, and it needs to be swept away.  But that isn't going to happen until the entire system melts down for real.  And Central bankers will bet all of our lives away before they roll over and accept that.

Superb and simple explanation.  So it's all just a big gamble really.   I kind of understand how it works now but it raises the next set of big questions which are
1. how they are so consistently lucky on an apparent gamble?
2. do they have some kind of insider information that none of us little folk have?
3. How can they actually DRIVE the price down by doing this shorting thing, because that's what they seem to do and consistently get away with...?
Apologies for all the dumb questions...

Superb and simple explanation.  So it's all just a big gamble really.   I kind of understand how it works now but it raises the next set of big questions which are
1. how they are so consistently lucky on an apparent gamble?
2. do they have some kind of insider information that none of us little folk have?
3. How can they actually DRIVE the price down by doing this shorting thing, because that's what they seem to do and consistently get away with...?
Apologies for all the dumb questions...

Superb and simple explanation.  So it's all just a big gamble really.   I kind of understand how it works now but it raises the next set of big questions which are
1. how they are so consistently lucky on an apparent gamble?
2. do they have some kind of insider information that none of us little folk have?
3. How can they actually DRIVE the price down by doing this shorting thing, because that's what they seem to do and consistently get away with...?
Apologies for all the dumb questions...

I can try to explain it with gold as the example.
 
Let's say I'm super confident that the price of gold is going to go way down. How can I make money from that?
"Hey Flying Vee Pixie, lend me that 1oz gold bar of yours, I'll give it back to you in a month"
So you give me your bar. I immediately sell it on the silver forum for £1500. 
One month later, the price of gold is down at £1300, so the day I'm supposed to give you it back, I buy another 1oz gold bar from Lawrence Chard or someone at that day's price of £1300. 
I give you 1oz of gold back as agreed. And I keep the £200 profit.
 
That's an oversimplified explanation of shorting. As others have said there are borrowing fees, and imaginary shares etc. But that is the principle of how someone makes money from the price going down.

Silver is split somewhere between monetary protection against currency debasement (what you are referring to above) and industrial demand which requires a functioning electric economy to flourish.  Good Silver deposits are becoming rarer to extract at profit so the story goes.  The confluence of rising demand for Silver and falling ore grades are imagined to one day cause a big price increase.  The cost of extraction is heavily energy price sensitive, so Silver is an indirect and somewhat delayed bet on the energy price as well.  When energy gets too expensive, mines shut down, and Silver demand outstrips supply.  But this is only true if the world continues to want iphones, solar panels and small electronics which all benefit from the use of the best conductor on the planet.  If we choose instead to destroy all that demand, by prosecuting a pointless economic war (as we're currently hell bent on doing), then perhaps Silver will not turn out to be such a good investment.  The white metals are all waaaaaaay down below pre war levels, and only gold with its purely monetary uses is acting as monetary protection in the scenario you describe above.  Gold's industrial uses are limited to only a few certain space applications along with specialist industry, so it has essentially zero force on its price other than monetary anxiety.   Aaaaaaaand of course central bank manipulation!  The last thing they like to do is publicly accept that gold is anything other than a relic from "uncivilised" times before the printers and credit creation made them into gods.

I'm pretty much onboard with everything you say here and understand fully about the concept of the '$300 an ounce wayhay we're all rich'  mistake in some peoples thinking because it simply means that the currencies have been devalued so much and the finite commodities have held their value as expected and are really just worth what they were always worth in real terms...🤔
I was just about to go and check @HerefordBullyun's video link so I'll go and do that now..

I'm pretty much onboard with everything you say here and understand fully about the concept of the '$300 an ounce wayhay we're all rich'  mistake in some peoples thinking because it simply means that the currencies have been devalued so much and the finite commodities have held their value as expected and are really just worth what they were always worth in real terms...🤔
I was just about to go and check @HerefordBullyun's video link so I'll go and do that now..

Think of the banks manipulation as an opportunity to put some of your savings into physical PMs. The banks know that we know (and the knowing is growing around the world), that the value of FIAT currency is worthless and is getting more worthless daily based on more FIAT debt creation (QE). More and more people are realising the con, in that FIAT is only backed by the promise of the incumbent government to give you another piece of plastic or paper with the same numbers stamped on it, which is only as safe as the taxes that they can collect. As soon as enough, and it's not the majority of a countries population, doesn't believe the lies in the value of the currency anymore, then you get into 2 scenarios, both end in that currencies collapse, and usually it is through hyper-inflation.
At that point there will be a rush to tangible commodities. This is why the big banks (JPM, BofA, Goldman Sachs etc..) have large holdings of PMs. They are waiting for the time that we all see the con and the currencies collapse. They then hold the silver and gold and come out on top again... sadly. This is the wealth preservation you, I, Bully and others on this forum are planning for, but are also kind of hoping never comes to fruition. The world will be in a dark place if globally we are hit with hyper-inflation and currency devaluation.

On other sites and forums people talk and dream of silver going to $300/ounce and exclaim they will be rich. That is the wrong way round. If silver gets to that lofty height, it will mean that the USD has lost a further 1200% on value (hyper-inflation will be the norm). It's the inverse. This is as long as the banks control the price. They will happily destroy the world, than cede their power and control back to us all.

If the big banks were removed or the countries returned to a gold standard (or a commodities basket standard), and they needed to clear the debt, price discovery would take place and the new norms would be found. This is the utopia we dream of.
 

Right just think of it as betting match. I am going to simplify it further.
You think a horse is going to win so you put 10 on it 
I am the bookie and I say ok I will give you 20 if it wins. So I am laying that bet, thats basically what shorting is. 
Hedgefunds and banks are basically the bookies they already know the outcome or very close to it, because they are controlling the market. So the odds are vastly in their favour. 

@HerefordBullyun@papi1980Ah thanks guys.  I'll have to read over both of your posts several times to try to make it sink in as I still can't get my head around it.  How can you make a profit by buying loads of something for which the selling price then falls?  Maybe I'm too thick for this game lol...🙃

Sounds like the kind of madcap scheme I might come up with meself...😂   Fantastic idea, though as you say yourself probably very difficult to find and mega expensive, but what a journey to embark on.  I wish you luck.

Sounds like the kind of madcap scheme I might come up with meself...😂   Fantastic idea, though as you say yourself probably very difficult to find and mega expensive, but what a journey to embark on.  I wish you luck.

I can see the price of food doubling (of more!) over the next 12 months. I think if you only have a small amount of money to invest buying food would be a good shout at the moment. Forget about eating for survival. Just from a purely investment point of view buying some extra food now makes a lot of sense.

I agree. Gold is better for both the point you mention about premium and the fact you need to hold 80xless of it than you do of silver.  Having said that though, if you sell your silver Brits on ebay you can usually just about manage to cover both the VAT and the premium you originally paid, although you still have to consider the selling fee. If you're very lucky you can pretty much just about get your money back, although until the day something happens to counteract the deliberate spot price suppression I would forget about making a profit..

I agree. Gold is better for both the point you mention about premium and the fact you need to hold 80xless of it than you do of silver.  Having said that though, if you sell your silver Brits on ebay you can usually just about manage to cover both the VAT and the premium you originally paid, although you still have to consider the selling fee. If you're very lucky you can pretty much just about get your money back, although until the day something happens to counteract the deliberate spot price suppression I would forget about making a profit..