Half, Full or Double Sovereigns...

[Kitalon]

I've been doing a bit of reading up recently courtesy of Marsh's Golden Sovereign Series and am curious about something. I've been wondering about the desirability of the different size variants of sovereigns, double, full and half, etc. Which are the better value for money for long-term investment, or better for collecting? I've noticed that premiums appear to vary between them but can't see any obvious reason why.

What do you collect; half, full, double or (I don't know what you'd call them other than) £5 sovereigns? What would you say the advantages/disadvantages of the different sizes are, I'd be interested to know. 🤔

[MonkeysUncle]

I only collect the standard Sovereign. 

One of the often stated reasons to collect Sovereigns is liquidity: a 400 pound Sovereign is easier to sell on than an 800 pound double... more buyers out there as 400 quid is more accessible to more people than 800 quid.

The half Sovereign tends to have higher premiums, and for my eyesight is too small to enjoy the detail.

I'm not averse to buying year sets of the different sizes, but as I buy to invest and not to collect per se then premiums are a major consideration for me.

Truth told I prefer a nice 24carat 1oz coin. Now I've committed heresy! 😄

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by MonkeysUncle
Can't type

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

£5 and £1 are the ones to go for. £2 and £1/2 are for completing sets only. £1/4 more like a "thank you for your purchase" bonus

[Spanishsilver]

Im in the process of collecting all the special year double proof sovereigns in pf70 as I feel you get more bang for your buck and you can see the designs much clearer. 
but for stacking I stick to bullion sovereigns and 1oz gold coins mostly. 

[Spyder]

39 minutes ago, Spanishsilver said:

Im in the process of collecting all the special year double proof sovereigns in pf70 as I feel you get more bang for your buck and you can see the designs much clearer. 
but for stacking I stick to bullion sovereigns and 1oz gold coins mostly. 

The graded double is by far the best value in graded coins. Usually in same grade you get twice the gold for the the price of the sovereign

[Petra]

What can you afford? £2 and £5 coins are great and if nothing else, show their designs off great. But for some of us more normal souls we have to ‘make do’ with the smaller stuff! Don’t even get me thinking of graded coins🤔😮

 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

The graded double is by far the best value in graded coins. Usually in same grade you get twice the gold for the the price of the sovereign

There's a reason why proof doubles and piedforts go for less than twice of proof singles. I's say that the same applies to graded old circulation sovereigns as well. There are plenty of collectors who will collect singles only, plenty who go big on fivers, and plenty who buy sets, but relatively few focus on £2 in preference to others, making it an awkward denomination. For the circulated sovereigns at least, the doubles are about as uncommon as the five (unlike the 40 Francs which are all over the place, £2 were mainly minted when £5 were also made except 1831)

[Stuntman]

I'd say definitely choose full sovereigns in answer to the questions covering both value for money and long-term investing.

However, I do like a bullion double sovereign as it's a nice lump of gold on which to see the design and available without too much of a premium sometimes.  Dealers don't pay as much for them per gram as they do for a sovereign if/when you come to sell, though.  Nice to have a few as part a collection, less efficient for a stack.

Bullion £5 sovereigns are very thin on the ground, with 2000 being the only available date since 1902 I think.  Brilliant Uncirculated coins are nice if you can find older ones at lower premiums.  Again nice to have as part of a collection, but a more limited market to sell, especially if you have bought the coins at a fairly large premium to spot in the first place (e.g. 2017, 2022 Brilliant Uncirculated £5 designs).

I don't have any halves but these would be a good second choice for stacking, behind the full sovereign.

 

[JamesH]

If stacking bullion I honestly don’t think you can go wrong with full, half or quarter sovereigns. The key is the premium. If it’s reasonable than they’re likely good value regardless of their size. I believe there’s a case for halves and maybe even quarters over the longer term as a more affordable coin for the masses and thus a more broad future audience but as those wiser than I have said before, you make your money when you’re buying. Low premium is the key if purely stacking

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

6 hours ago, Kitalon said:

I've been doing a bit of reading up recently courtesy of Marsh's Golden Sovereign Series and am curious about something. I've been wondering about the desirability of the different size variants of sovereigns, double, full and half, etc. Which are the better value for money for long-term investment, or better for collecting? I've noticed that premiums appear to vary between them but can't see any obvious reason why.

What do you collect; half, full, double or (I don't know what you'd call them other than) £5 sovereigns? What would you say the advantages/disadvantages of the different sizes are, I'd be interested to know. 🤔

A £5 Sovereign is known as a 'Quin' or 'Quintuple'

I agree with the others who said premiums are key - any UK legal tender CGT-free gold is a great buy if you find it at a low premium. You're more likely to find full sovs at a lower premium than halves or quarters. If you do find fractional sovs at the same premium as fulls, then the fractional would be a better buy. Fractional almost always carries a higher premium as the cost of minting the coins is relatively fixed between halves and fulls, so if you're carrying the minting cost the premium is higher the smaller the gold gets

You occasionally see 1oz 24K Britannias at spot on TSF so that's a low premium and represents a great buy in isolation. The complication is re-sale with it being more difficult to shift the 1oz coins. I don't intend to sell anytime soon so 1oz at low premium makes sense for me. If my intention was to buy and sell parts of my gold then I'd buy smaller pieces like 1/4 oz or sovs

I own several 1oz pieces and some sovs, with more value tied up in the 1oz pieces. I love the larger 24K coins and I'm not overly keen on the modern "rose" (copper) 22K sovs. My future purchases are likely to be shields and more of the modern bullion sovs even if I don't like the colour or the obverse (KCIII). Circulated sovs are what I want so I can actually touch them. I've never touched any of the gold I own which is a bit of a negative

[Britannia47]

 @HonestMoneyGoldSilver

Always buy something you can touch then. These are part of my handling collection. Otherwise what’s the point? Edit: …or use an older bullion sovereign to twiddle between the fingers! …

It’s luverly!,,,,,,,😍

Edited December 15, 2023 by Britannia47

[xthomasx]

I collect full (proof, bullion and some special issues) and, with far less enthusiasm, half, double, quarter (only the latest bullions). Thinking about stopping the quarters from 2024.

Edited December 16, 2023 by xthomasx

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

18 hours ago, xthomasx said:

I collect full (proof, bullion and some special issues) and, with far less enthusiasm, half, double, quarter (only the latest bullions). Thinking about stopping the quarters from 2024.

There's only one quarter sov worth collecting, and it was made in 1853

[RDHC]

On 14/12/2023 at 13:51, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

£5 and £1 are the ones to go for. £2 and £1/2 are for completing sets only. £1/4 more like a "thank you for your purchase" bonus

I know that I am going against popular opinion and received wisdom here, but I have to say that I rather like double sovereigns, or at least the few that I have been able to afford. Often they are available at lower premiums, and - even  more of a consideration, at least to my eyes- their larger diameter shows off the relevant design much better. A case in point is the 2022 Jubilee double sovereign. I expect that this would be even truer of the 2023 Memorial sovereign because of its intricate, not to say cluttered, design, but I don't possess an example of that.

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

8 minutes ago, RDHC said:

I know that I am going against popular opinion and received wisdom here, but I have to say that I rather like double sovereigns, or at least the few that I have been able to afford. Often they are available at lower premiums, and - even  more of a consideration, at least to my eyes- their larger diameter shows off the relevant design much better. A case in point is the 2022 Jubilee double sovereign. I expect that this would be even truer of the 2023 Memorial sovereign because of its intricate, not to say cluttered, design, but I don't possess an example of that.

Only if there are more people like you! The £2 are rather unloved. 20 Yen and Canadian 10 dollars are the coins with similar sizes, and everyone loves them.

The thing is, with 20 yen and C$20 there are no larger denominations so people get those for intricacy. With sovereigns people just go to £5, esp. modern special reverse. On the other hand, there isn't much details on newer St.G&D coins so £1 will suffice. 

One very unfortunate thing about the new sovereigns is the weak detail. People complain about the rosy colour and shiny surface, but often forget to mention how weak the details are. The relief is typically very low, and the quality of image reminds of old counterfeits even fantasy restrikes. The 21st century coins are a joke really...  and that's RM boasting their "modern technology precision die making"

[AaaGee]

My 2022 Jubilee double sovereign is my favourite gold coin. Wont be buying anymore as it was such a massive stretch for me to get it. Cant see 1/4s and dont have any halves. Full sovereigns all the way for me

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

4 hours ago, RDHC said:

I know that I am going against popular opinion and received wisdom here, but I have to say that I rather like double sovereigns, or at least the few that I have been able to afford. Often they are available at lower premiums, and - even  more of a consideration, at least to my eyes- their larger diameter shows off the relevant design much better. A case in point is the 2022 Jubilee double sovereign. I expect that this would be even truer of the 2023 Memorial sovereign because of its intricate, not to say cluttered, design, but I don't possess an example of that.

There's nothing wrong with going against perceived wisdom, I don't think we always follow our own advice anyway

Maybe a fair analogy is full sovs are a perfectly healthy and balanced diet. It's good for us to strive towards that and sometimes even meet it but for fun we still like restaurants, takeaways and sugar. Who knows what the future holds, culinary tastes change as does perceived wisdom. As long as you're still eating something and not only eating sugar, it's all good!

I love a lot of American coins like Buffalos, Indian Heads, Double Eagles. A clean example of a 1oz Philharmonic is a beautiful coin. Then you've got Perth Mint, Real Casa de la Moneda, so many desirable modern items plus all the historical stuff. It's easier just to say "sovs", you can't go wrong with good healthy food!

[MonkeysUncle]

5 hours ago, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

Only if there are more people like you! The £2 are rather unloved. 20 Yen and Canadian 10 dollars are the coins with similar sizes, and everyone loves them.

The thing is, with 20 yen and C$20 there are no larger denominations so people get those for intricacy. With sovereigns people just go to £5, esp. modern special reverse. On the other hand, there isn't much details on newer St.G&D coins so £1 will suffice. 

One very unfortunate thing about the new sovereigns is the weak detail. People complain about the rosy colour and shiny surface, but often forget to mention how weak the details are. The relief is typically very low, and the quality of image reminds of old counterfeits even fantasy restrikes. The 21st century coins are a joke really...  and that's RM boasting their "modern technology precision die making"

Have to agree, they are very low relief. I blame health and safety... the man bashing the die on the coin probably has a Fisher Price toy rubber hammer so as not to hurt himself.

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

23 minutes ago, MonkeysUncle said:

Have to agree, they are very low relief. I blame health and safety... the man bashing the die on the coin probably has a Fisher Price toy rubber hammer so as not to hurt himself.

I heard they don't use a man to make the die, it's now laser engraved

[CANV]

Single or full sov all day long.   I’ve been wanting a few doubles for some time but never pull the trigger, and take singles instead   ..

being a big 22 carat. Coin handling fan I think I’d rather save up and get a krug 

[Kitalon]

I've banged together a simple calculator as a bit of a thought-exercise to see how the premiums of the different denominations worked out. This is just based on today's prices from the Royal Mint for a 2022 Memorial quarter, half, full and double sovereign.

I was surprised at the much higher premium on the quarter, and that both the full and double's premium are the same. Being something of a £2 coin collector I do find myself leaning more towards the (two pound) double sovereign personally. I suppose the real proof of the pudding will be when I have one of each to compare. I like that the double also represents (almost) half an ounce, so 2 doubles to the (nearly) ounce in 2 coins instead of 4. I think I would be more pulled towards getting commemorative coins in double sovereigns and standard as full sovereigns. I am assuming that doubles have lower mintage numbers so potentially may have more value down the road to collectors. That's just my tuppence-worth. 🤔

Edited December 17, 2023 by Kitalon

[cjbcomm]

Mainly singles for stacking purposes as the premiums are generally lower and these are easier to shift if needed.

Saying that, not averse to taking a few sets with the doubles and quins when the price is right. Bought a few at auction when the prices are right.

Difference between stacking and collecting I guess

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

From the website of a Wessex Coins. As you can see they're selling the double for less than single, both in the same grade. 

I've also seen other dealers doing the same, i.e. selling proof doubles for less than proof singles in the same grade. I'd say £5k+ for these could be a bit too expensive, but just for reference, you see how double sovereigns are generally less appreciated than the single.

With these collectible coins whose prices far exceed the intrinsic value, I'd say size isn't the only factor. Indeed you'll likely never see a double sovereign going for more than twice of a single of the same type and condition, and I believe the same applies to double and single guineas as well.

[Agaupl]

On 14/12/2023 at 23:31, Kitalon said:

I've been doing a bit of reading up recently courtesy of Marsh's Golden Sovereign Series and am curious about something. I've been wondering about the desirability of the different size variants of sovereigns, double, full and half, etc. Which are the better value for money for long-term investment, or better for collecting? I've noticed that premiums appear to vary between them but can't see any obvious reason why.

What do you collect; half, full, double or (I don't know what you'd call them other than) £5 sovereigns? What would you say the advantages/disadvantages of the different sizes are, I'd be interested to know. 🤔

There will always be more interest in the full. This weeks CotR auction sold a full graded 1989 set for around £5100 I think….mixed grades.  The full single is about £ 18-1900 of that despite being a smaller percentage of the total good value. 
 

but the question is.. are you interested in gold weigh or numismatic value. If it’s good weight then the gold at the best price is the best gold.  CGT exempt is the only variable to be worried about. 
 

as a new buyer atm you won’t be missing anything by waiting to buy gold. Price is pretty high atm. Work out what you want to buy and what you like and buy that .. don’t worry about a £1 or £10 an ounce here or there. If you buy what you like at a fair price you will never be unhappy. Also pretty much any physical gold at spot is a bargain. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Agaupl

[Kitalon]

I've found a seller who's selling a box set of three sovereigns; a full sovereign, half and quarter for £550. That to me looks like a good deal!