Graded coins

[James32]

Just now, Gruff said:

Oh, please do tell me the difference, I'm curious now

One will get you a black eye, the other will get you a steak dinner in a fancy restaurant but arrested on way home.

[Foster88]

2 hours ago, Leonmarsh said:

Get it bloody bought Petra 😂

He’s even put photos on so you don’t  have to ask for them. 😆

[Orpster]

The older the coin the lower the grade I would find acceptable,

I mainly collect Victoria Young Heads, for common years if I bought a graded anything lower than AU58 I would likely jailbreak, I have removed a lot of coins from slabs in the past.  Rare years or variants that have variant detailed on the label I would likely keep slabbed whatever the grade.  I have turned graded coins down at bullion price if they have marks I find unappealing (buy the coin not the grade).  I have also bought pre-Victoria at F and detail grades.  I think you have to take each potential purchase on its own merits.

Moderns I am happy to buy PF68/69 but will only pay the raw price, exception being special reverse.  Bullion I will buy slabbed but only on certain coins, in fact I am looking to buy a few SOTD plain edge graded when funds allow, and really want them in MS70. 

[ZRPMs]

Just had some coin's back from @GoldDiggerDave that he had got graded for me.

A nice 6 coin set of the 2017 Krugerrand 4 had the PF70 sadly 2 came back as PF69.

2 X 2017 that came back as the desired PF70

An 1883 Sovereign that quite meanly got an AU58

With the star of the bunch was the 1790 1/2 guinea that came back as MS62

Finally the disappointment of the batch was the 1/2 1887 that came back Details, cleaned. Hard to tell but hey ho.

Not too bad for my first time sending off for grading and dipping my toe into this side of coin collecting. Think I'd like to move the Krug set on and turn in to some sovereigns, and the little half sovereign might have to be broken out of jail. Only to be put with it's mates in the loose collection.

[Sovhead]

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[James32]

3 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Deemed normal wear and tear I guess

[Sovhead]

Just now, James32 said:

Deemed normal wear and tear I guess

Forget the wear and tear James for a moment it’s scratched and got a high grade other coins scratched get marked up on the holder as scratched.

[James32]

Just now, Sovhead said:

Forget the wear and tear James for a moment it’s scratched and got a high grade other coins scratched get marked up on the holder as scratched.

Honestly it's whatever way the wind blew through the graders hair on the day. I'm still guessing it was deemed normal/expected wear.

@GoldDiggerDave would be best to advise though.

[Sovhead]

Just now, James32 said:

Honestly it's whatever way the wind blew through the graders hair on the day. I'm still guessing it was deemed normal/expected wear.

@GoldDiggerDave would be best to advise though.

Here’s another, big scratch at the top of Victoria’s head and didn’t get a “scratched” grading…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166421559218?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=qbin8mt1s0u&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Leonmarsh]

10 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

It's why there is the saying buy the coin and not the grade, grading is an opinion personally for me that is no where near MS coin let alone a 63 

For example my Indian head is AU58 and clearly a better coin than a 58 

Grading can be misleading 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

15 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Can you see the full slab with the NGC serial number?    

[Leonmarsh]

This may help too, how they decide 

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/

Edited November 11, 2023 by Leonmarsh

[Sovhead]

2 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Can you see the full slab with the NGC serial number?    

You actually can’t in the auction pic but it says it in the description mate, I doubt he’d send a coin that wasn’t as described the buyer would fire it straight back to him.

[GoldDiggerDave]

@Sovhead    Details are usually down to "cleaning"  sometimes its easy to see sometimes I'm at a loss when a coin gets details.   The very high points are a tell tale sign and very regular scratches caused by  someone rubbing the coin clean, this can be seen between the letter in the legend, and low areas of the coin. 

[Leonmarsh]

Grading can some time hamper coins 

I have seen two Indian heads one raw and one not in nowhere near what this coin is, in the same grade yet mine remain for sale 

I have bought of here coins photographed superb and they have been dogs, cleaned etc 

But people see the grade and think it must be decent got to study a coin to see if it is reflective of the grade, I often ask trusted people what it's like I'm hand, if their not a 🔔 end they should give you a true representation of the coin 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Leonmarsh

[ZRPMs]

19 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Ah yes, it was graded at MS63 but then it was taken out of the slab. Thrown in the tumble dryer. Used to play pigeon toss for a year or two then re graded. It's now a "Details, Beat up and abused"

[Sovhead]

10 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

It's why there is the saying buy the coin and not the grade, grading is an opinion personally for me that is no where near MS coin let alone a 63 

For example my Indian head is AU58 and clearly a better coin than a 58 

Grading can be misleading 

 

That resembles the 1818 half Sov one of our fellow members has up for sale it got an AU58 as well they both look to me better than that.

[Leonmarsh]

1 minute ago, Sovhead said:

That resembles the 1818 half Sov one of our fellow members has up for sale it got an AU58 as well they both look to me better than that.

My AU58 and another AU58 recently sold 

Night and day, eagles shoulder feathers, fields heavily marked yet same grade 

Strangely the bird looks like it's eaten a bit much too 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Leonmarsh

[Leonmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

That resembles the 1818 half Sov one of our fellow members has up for sale it got an AU58 as well they both look to me better than that.

That 1818 is a nice coin 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

9 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

That resembles the 1818 half Sov one of our fellow members has up for sale it got an AU58 as well they both look to me better than that.

I think the lustre matters. I have an AU58 1820 sovereign that has all sharp details. The portrait is pristine and no major breaches anywhere, but there is no continuous lustre on the obsverse and by defalt gets 58. Not lower because it's uncirculated otherwise, but can't reach 60 because the lustre only exists among the words in the legend. An 1832 of mine full also suffers this. These early sovereigns were made semi-prooflike, meaning even the slightest handling causes lustre to be lost.

 

I've heard stories where NGC consistently gives lower grades than PCGS for certain types of coins. I guess the two grading companies do have varying grading criteria.

 

But personally I think grading on the whole is, to put it politely, a way of introducing a sophisticated hobby to a more diverse audience.

Edited November 11, 2023 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[Leonmarsh]

And this is the problem 

People see two AU58 one slightly cheaper than other yet the coins are miles apart 

I have seen 1818 in mid MS and there's wasnt alot of any difference with that Au58

I have also had a coin I thought woul get MS 62came back AU58 snapped it out resubmitted and came back an MS63 

Makes the pop reports a bit of a joke to as the same coin has an AU58 and and MS63 

[Sovhead]

I’ve mentioned this before I’ve an 1860 sov graded MS61 “Uvedale collection” it’s clearly dirty and has not a copper spot but a very faint copper patch on the shield, if they were addressed would it grade higher?

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

35 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

Right I’m needing something explained.

When coins get graded we’ve all seen some graded “Au details” “scratched”  etc but this coin on eBay has numerous “nicks” on the veil and another couple at Victoria’s mouth and chin and there is a scratch on it too but it got graded MS-63 how’s that???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155870733788?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsET7quiS9q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yvjAM_HqRB-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This one would get UNC Detailed at least in my opinion. Very strong continuous lustre. Also it's a half sovereign, so the scratch might not be that big in life. The shape of scratch probably matters also, for it may indicate the cause. Perhaps bagging marks and knife graffitis are considered differently.

[Leonmarsh]

Just now, Sovhead said:

I’ve mentioned this before I’ve an 1860 sov graded MS61 “Uvedale collection” it’s clearly dirty and has not a copper spot but a very faint copper patch on the shield, if they were addressed would it grade higher?

Possibly yes I'd it's worth it financially a grad sir so can make a difference of hundred and in some cases thousands for say an early sovereign 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

1 minute ago, Sovhead said:

I’ve mentioned this before I’ve an 1860 sov graded MS61 “Uvedale collection” it’s clearly dirty and has not a copper spot but a very faint copper patch on the shield, if they were addressed would it grade higher?

I think so. Copper spots/surface contamination are part of "surface condition" and will certainly change the grade. Even if it doesn't improved eye appeal is a bonus.