XRF Reading of my 1887 5 Sovereign

[Spyder]

Hello

Does anyone know what the reading should be for a 1887 5 Sovereign.  Today while in Hatton Garden, I had my coin scanned and got this reading. 

Is this what is should be or is there something wrong as it states 21.81ct. By the way, the dealer was salivating and wanted me to sell the coin to him. 

Let me know what others think.  

Spyder

Edited August 4, 2023 by Spyder

[jultorsk]

Well... what were you selling it for? 

 

@LawrenceChard

[Spyder]

8 hours ago, jultorsk said:

Well... what were you selling it for? 

 

@LawrenceChard

This coin was not for sale. I went to sell some jewellery and decided to get my coin scanned

[modofantasma]

There's some info in this thread about an 1887 

https://www.thesilverforum.com/topic/71634-my-1887-quintuple-jubilee-sovereign/page/2/#comment-782759

[Spyder]

3 hours ago, modofantasma said:

There's some info in this thread about an 1887 

https://www.thesilverforum.com/topic/71634-my-1887-quintuple-jubilee-sovereign/page/2/#comment-782759

Yes, I know. It is my thread I started when I first joined the forum

[modofantasma]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

Yes, I know. It is my thread I started when I first joined the forum

Ahhh so it is. Apologies I didn't realise you started the thread 

[jultorsk]

 

[dicker]

@ChrisSilver It might be worth moving this post to Gold or merging with the thread on the same coin created by the same OP.

@Spyder It might be worth getting this graded to put your mind at rest.

[GoldDiggerDave]

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/world/13/

There's some information in the NGC website about these,  fakes can test well within tolerances of the XFR. 

Other than soft strike and tooling on some I've seen a slightly wider rim.  

 

 

[Spyder]

I little update regarding this 5 sovereign and history. 

I bought this coin in 2012 from My local coin shop.  I made a thread about this coin when I joined this forum (link further up). At the time some thought it was a fake coin.  I spoke to Lawrence and I told him from whom I bought it from and also who else verified the coin at the time. Lawrence said of the two, that If those two said it was real then likely it is. Had I lived closer to Blackpool, I would have had Lawrence look at it.

To cut a long story short, some guessed who the coin shop off Charring Cross was. It is the one in Cecil Court run  by Philip Cohen

Anyway couple of weeks ago I was in Hatton Garden where I went to sell some scrap gold and got the coin XRF as I put in this thread. The reason for this was about what happened In April. That month, I went to Coincraft (opposite the British Museum), a popular coin shop in all the coin magazines. Walked in and showed them my Jubilee Head 5 Sovereign, first one person, then a second (more senior status) and both said it a fake. I said how can you be sure without even putting his loupe to his eye. He said it a good fake but still a fake. They were both being dismissive. I said ''Have you got a XRF Scanner to test the coin'' The answer NO we do not buy bullion.  The truth is that shop is there to sell overpriced tat to tourist with their £40 Morgan Dollars and Silver Crowns and half. I would buy nothing from them. 

 

Today I decided to pay a visit to Philip Cohen. Last time I was there was more then 9 years ago. I said nothing that he had seen the coin before. To him it was the first time he had seen this coin. He had a good look and said '' This is a very nice coin''  I said to him '' How can you be sure that it is not a fake?''  He answer, Been in the business long enough and have seen many fakes and genuine 1887.  I then told him that he had seen that coin over 9 years ago and that his opinion was exactly the same. 

I told him what Coincraft had said.  He said if that coin was fake, he would shut the shop tomorrow.  I asked him if that was his coin would he get it graded, he said no. He thinks that it would be graded MS62 or maybe as high as MS63. He doesn't think the edge marks detract from the quality of the coin.  Anyway he offered to buy it off me for what I consider is a fair price of +£2450. 

If I do decide to sell, it would be to him.  To me he comes across as a very fair and honest person. Integrity is more important than money. 

If anyone in London has any nice coins to sell, I would go to see him. 

[Roy]

I'm glad your mind is at rest.

It is a lovely coin 🪙 

[dicker]

Good to hear.  Did you ever solve the mystery of the three edge knocks / file marks?

[Spyder]

14 minutes ago, dicker said:

Good to hear.  Did you ever solve the mystery of the three edge knocks / file marks?

I asked Philip about this today. He seems to think that they are not file marks but more edge knocks as if someone hit the edge too hard trying to do some kind of ping test with some kind of blade. Being the age of this coin, people tried different things in the past. We will never know.

[JohnA1]

On 04/08/2023 at 21:11, Spyder said:

Hello

Does anyone know what the reading should be for a 1887 5 Sovereign.  Today while in Hatton Garden, I had my coin scanned and got this reading. 

Is this what is should be or is there something wrong as it states 21.81ct. By the way, the dealer was salivating and wanted me to sell the coin to him. 

Let me know what others think.  

Spyder

 

 

According to the list of sov compositions Chards have, for a 1887  piece I would aim for 914 gold, 75 copper an 6 silver.

The readout from XRF is not that far off IMO.

Maybe Coingraft have embedded hi-rez XRF scanners in their eyeballs to be so dismissive 🙄

Edited August 18, 2023 by JohnA1

[CollectForFun]

Looking now on the photo of the test result, I noticed the coin was tested only for 5.1 seconds before the reading was captured - according to what I know about this type of testing, that can be too short to get an accurate result. I would expect the testing to take a bit longer. We discussed about this in this thread:

So that may explain the difference in the measured composition against the expected one...

[Spyder]

18 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

Looking now on the photo of the test result, I noticed the coin was tested only for 5.1 seconds before the reading was captured - according to what I know about this type of testing, that can be too short to get an accurate result. I would expect the testing to take a bit longer. We discussed about this in this thread:

So that may explain the difference in the measured composition against the expected one...

Thanks for that. Very interesting thread. His Krugerrand only got 902.7 on average. 

[Silverlocks]

They also wander out of calibration.

[James32]

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

They also wander out of calibration.

This is a very good point.

[KevjustKev]

I went to Coincraft once, and that was once too many, had money on me and was willing to buy if something took my fancy. Seemed to think I was below them. They're a complete load of (lot's of words that would get be kicked of the forum)!

5 minutes later I was in Spink greeted with a 'Good afternoon sir, can I help you with anything?'

My reply 'No just looking at what I can't afford'