Atkinsons Paying 10pct Over Spot

[dicker]

For selected coins….just got an email

Supply -vs- demand issues?

Best

Dicker

[billp]

Think we'll be seeing more of this from dealers in the future

[MBTPSilver]

Interesting. The issue though is they'll be selling them second hand at a higher price. This was similar with Sovereigns in the last few months of last year - dealers started to offer spot or higher, but then selling premiums all shot up to 10% or so.

Good for anyone wanting to sell at around £22/oz with the convenience of a dealer though.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Some insane pricing - £22.44 for ASEs, Maples and Britannias. You'd feel sorry for anyone selling ASEs or Maples

Resale on the 2022 ASE is £51.38 ...

Edited April 12, 2023 by HonestMoneyGoldSilver
got carried away

[Gordy]

10% over spot? so £22.45 atm.... wow! such an amazing deal i think i'll cash in my stack...... NOT!!!!!! 

[ant1882]

20 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Some insane pricing - £22.44 for ASEs, Maples and Britannias. You'd feel sorry for anyone selling ASEs or Maples

Resale on the 2022 ASE is £51.38 ...

I didn't realise ASE went for so much, have the 2021 Type 1 & 2, plus a 2022.

[Gordy]

18 minutes ago, ant1882 said:

I didn't realise ASE went for so much, have the 2021 Type 1 & 2, plus a 2022.

they dont... dont fret... 

[Stuntman]

Certainly a fairly interesting move.

If I could sell holdings in my silver ETF for 10% over today's price, I would consider cashing in some of it.

[RoughDog]

What is an ASE?

 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Nobody should sell an ounce until after the Fed lights the rocket by freezing rates. This probably (31.5%) won't be on May 3rd but it's not far off. We're going to the moon, don't disembark until we get there. Make the dealers sweat blood and regret their life choices by being so greedy up until now

1 minute ago, RoughDog said:

What is an ASE?

 

American Silver Eagle

[RoughDog]

1 minute ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Nobody should sell an ounce until after the Fed lights the rocket by freezing rates. This probably (31.5%) won't be on May 3rd but it's not far off. We're going to the moon, don't disembark until we get there. Make the dealers sweat blood and regret their life choices by being so greedy up until now

American Silver Eagle

Thanks.  Eagles.  Didn't think of that.

[Zeuk]

What’s normal for silver? That’s still well within a band of premium in terms of resale profitability so is a bit of a headline grabber but exudes less of a hard on when you realise it’s for silver not gold. 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

8 minutes ago, Gordy said:

they dont... dont fret... 

2022 USA Eagle 1oz Silver Coin | 1oz Silver Coins | Atkinsons Bullion

[MBTPSilver]

13 hours ago, Zeuk said:

What’s normal for silver? That’s still well within a band of premium in terms of resale profitability so is a bit of a headline grabber but exudes less of a hard on when you realise it’s for silver not gold. 

Most dealers will normally offer just over spot 100.1% - 101% in order to qualify for the VAT margin scheme I believe.

[Zeuk]

5 minutes ago, MBTPSilver said:

Most dealers will normally offer just over spot 100.1% - 101% in order to qualify for the VAT margin scheme I believe.

Tnx, that’s so bad for silver lol.  Run out of emoticons so a 👍 for you and Op

[Gordy]

18 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

2022 USA Eagle 1oz Silver Coin | 1oz Silver Coins | Atkinsons Bullion

I'll see your 2022 overpriced ASE and raise you a more reasonable 2023 ASE

2023 American Eagle 1oz Silver Bullion Coin (silvertrader.uk)

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

35 minutes ago, Gordy said:

I'll see your 2022 overpriced ASE and raise you a more reasonable 2023 ASE

2023 American Eagle 1oz Silver Bullion Coin (silvertrader.uk)

Technically that's not a raise, it's an undercut, but I agree with what you're saying.

I am triggered by predatory business practices and the major dealers, especially BBP, trigger me a lot. Consider this. They can't even buy silver coins in wholesale for 101% of spot. It costs like £2 to refine and mint a coin, so if spot is £20.63, their WHOLESALE price will be £22.63 +. They offer less for single units than their wholesale price, which is totally upside down.

Then they turn around and sell the same coin you just gave them for 100% margin. It's infuriating from my POV. The very minimum they should offer is their wholesale price to sellers, which according to dealers and coin shops, is also on the march. Maybe the wholesale price for something like a Britannia currently is spot + £3. We can be sure Atkinsons wouldn't be offering £22.69 for any year Britannias if they could source them wholesale for less than that, right?

I'm a ranter, these existential problems bother me. If we compare with other tight re-buyers like SD or APMEX, SD offer spot + $7.50 on 2023 ASEs and APMEX closer to $8. Why is Atkinsons offering spot + £2.07 ($2.59)? It's a complete rip-off, a full 2/3rds less than the market rate

There are 2oz silver QBs on offer on TSF right now for £60/each and Atkinsons will offer only £43.31 for the 2021 (completer) and 2019 editions. I would love to purchase them from @iacabu but I only want to pay £100 + post. I don't have the heart to make such a low offer, I don't want to insult anybody and I know they are worth more than that. So what are Atkinsons, BBP and the others doing when offering £43.31? It's pure predation and deeply immoral IMHO. Rant over (for now)

[MBTPSilver]

18 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Technically that's not a raise, it's an undercut, but I agree with what you're saying.

I am triggered by predatory business practices and the major dealers, especially BBP, trigger me a lot. Consider this. They can't even buy silver coins in wholesale for 101% of spot. It costs like £2 to refine and mint a coin, so if spot is £20.63, their WHOLESALE price will be £22.63 +. They offer less for single units than their wholesale price, which is totally upside down.

Then they turn around and sell the same coin you just gave them for 100% margin. It's infuriating from my POV. The very minimum they should offer is their wholesale price to sellers, which according to dealers and coin shops, is also on the march. Maybe the wholesale price for something like a Britannia currently is spot + £3. We can be sure Atkinsons wouldn't be offering £22.69 for any year Britannias if they could source them wholesale for less than that, right?

I'm a ranter, these existential problems bother me. If we compare with other tight re-buyers like SD or APMEX, SD offer spot + $7.50 on 2023 ASEs and APMEX closer to $8. Why is Atkinsons offering spot + £2.07 ($2.59)? It's a complete rip-off, a full 2/3rds less than the market rate

There are 2oz silver QBs on offer on TSF right now for £60/each and Atkinsons will offer only £43.31 for the 2021 (completer) and 2019 editions. I would love to purchase them from @iacabu but I only want to pay £100 + post. I don't have the heart to make such a low offer, I don't want to insult anybody and I know they are worth more than that. So what are Atkinsons, BBP and the others doing when offering £43.31? It's pure predation and deeply immoral IMHO. Rant over (for now)

Just to confirm, even if it costs £2 to refine and mint a coin (which is unlikely these days with energy costs so high), there are still a myriad number of other costs to cover for any dealer. The rent for their shop, staff wages, energy bills, delivery etc. They also don't resell those coins at 100% margin, those are the costs for a new coin with VAT. They sell their second hand coins at lower rates (still high premiums overall, but usually around 10 - 40% depending on the quantity being purchased).

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

3 minutes ago, MBTPSilver said:

Just to confirm, even if it costs £2 to refine and mint a coin (which is unlikely these days with energy costs so high), there are still a myriad number of other costs to cover for any dealer. The rent for their shop, staff wages, energy bills, delivery etc. They also don't resell those coins at 100% margin, those are the costs for a new coin with VAT. They sell their second hand coins at lower rates (still high premiums overall, but usually around 10 - 40% depending on the quantity being purchased).

You're right but I'm referring specifically to BBP here. They are selling "Grade B" coins, any year Britannias, which by definition are second hand, and still charging the full 20% VAT, they don't offer anything on the VAT Margin Scheme (other dealers do). Why would they do that? Because they can claim back some or all of the VAT. The price that matters to the consumer is the ticket price, which includes taxes. 

[Gordy]

17 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

You're right but I'm referring specifically to BBP here. They are selling "Grade B" coins, any year Britannias, which by definition are second hand, and still charging the full 20% VAT, they don't offer anything on the VAT Margin Scheme (other dealers do).

there is a dealer charging pretty much the same price as BBP with their margin scheme, it all boils down to individual stores/dealers on how the set their prices,

tbh, not many on here will buy from BBP because of their pricing and some dealers have better prices than others across the board but why buy secondary market at these when you can get them here cheaper anyway and you get to see pics of the coins also and be able to ask quality questions etc too.. 

[iacabu]

57 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

There are 2oz silver QBs on offer on TSF right now for £60/each and Atkinsons will offer only £43.31 for the 2021 (completer) and 2019 editions. I would love to purchase them from @iacabu but I only want to pay £100 + post. I don't have the heart to make such a low offer, I don't want to insult anybody and I know they are worth more than that. So what are Atkinsons, BBP and the others doing when offering £43.31? It's pure predation and deeply immoral IMHO. Rant over (for now)

You need only ask...the answer is no 😂

I'll send you a pm 👍

[MBTPSilver]

1 hour ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

You're right but I'm referring specifically to BBP here. They are selling "Grade B" coins, any year Britannias, which by definition are second hand, and still charging the full 20% VAT, they don't offer anything on the VAT Margin Scheme (other dealers do). Why would they do that? Because they can claim back some or all of the VAT. The price that matters to the consumer is the ticket price, which includes taxes. 

Again, and hopefully not coming across as hostile, but that is incorrect. Their Grade B coins are brand news coins that have arrived from Royal Mint with tarnish, milk spots etc. They do offer coins on the VAT margin scheme, just not online, you have to call them due to how quickly they sell. They detail that on a few pages, for example - https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/index/silver/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-buy-silver/

I agree with others that selling to any dealer is going to lose you money, as with any middleman transaction. Selling directly will always be a better option.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

2 hours ago, MBTPSilver said:

Again, and hopefully not coming across as hostile, but that is incorrect. Their Grade B coins are brand news coins that have arrived from Royal Mint with tarnish, milk spots etc. They do offer coins on the VAT margin scheme, just not online, you have to call them due to how quickly they sell. They detail that on a few pages, for example - https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/index/silver/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-buy-silver/

I agree with others that selling to any dealer is going to lose you money, as with any middleman transaction. Selling directly will always be a better option.

No worries my friend. I did go OTT with the 100% margin, it's not that high in reality. When spot was £19, BBP were rebuying Type I 2023 Britannias (QEII) for £19.02 and selling 2023 QEIIs for £38.04, which is 100% peak to trough. Although as you say my figures are a false representation as you pointed out, BBP do sell on the VAT Margin Scheme, just not online. I never noticed that before as I assumed the claim, "The UK's #1 online bullion dealer", meant they offered all of their products online. I'm just incensed by BBP in general and got carried away with rhetoric and ranting. Never feel bad calling me out, I like to be wrong and learn new things