Slab...over coin

[refero]

why i got the feeling that more and more stackers/collectors are buying and, rather than enjoying their purchase, are immediately taken into this PF70 or MS top pop madness? I understand this is an extremely expensive hobby, and it is more than reasonable to protect our investments.. but it looks like a shame nowadays getting a PF69 back from NCG or PCGS.. (its also good to bear in mind that its perfectly natural that only a small % of a specific proof mintage get the highest grade)

I dont understand this rush in sending a recently aquired coin to get its plastic sarcophagus. I queued like thousands of people recently to get my Jubilee, and few months after my memorial. I have no clue if they would get a pf70 or not, but to be honest i couldnt care less. Maybe, if and when i ll decide to sell... but why now? 

This late slab rush is turning us blind guys. We should enjoy more our coins and not focus on those bloody figures/plastic box..

 

[kimchi]

Some interesting points from 23:22.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by kimchi

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

Partially I think PF70 means NGC has done all quality checks and authentication, and slabbed coins can be bought nearly care-free (not that there are no counterfeit slabs though). This means slabbed coins are always more desirable than loose ones. And there are a lot of perfectionists.

On the other hand, I must agree that it's the coins we're buying not a piece of plastic. If it's possible to thoroughly examine a coin in person before purchasing slabs would not be as necessary.

On a balanced account I think numeric grading provide an objective description of condition, as opposed to the more subjective FDC/UNC/AU/EF, etc.. And the fact that NGC is 3rd party helps. However, labels such as "first releases" or "first 100 struck" are completely worthless and perhaps do not help improve the soundness of any seller demanding any higher premium based SOLELY on those.

The above statement only applies to numismatic pieces, old or new. Having bullion coins graded and slabbed is something I do not understand at all. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by SeverinDigsSovereigns
Would like to add a new paragraph instead of posting another message

[SidS]

This top population slabbing thing started in the US with pop reports. It's utter madness buying labels and slabs rather than what's in the slab.

I've long said that grading is subjective and not scientific. Evidence to support my hypothesis is that people will buy a PGCS slabbed coin at MS65 and crack it out, submit it to NGC and hope to get an MS66. Surely if grading was scientific it would come back as MS65 again - quite often though it will come back higher or amusingly lower sometimes!

It's not a positive step for the future of collecting.

[Nowhereman]

It reminds me of old toys still in their packaging. People spending a massive premium on them and when they get them they hermetically seal them and never open them. Seems a shame to me.

[dicker]

I don’t like certifying coins and locking them in slabs.  

My Mk1 eyeball and research is not fun and valuable to me - and I have seen coins over graded to my eye anyway.

My outrageous forecast: In 100 years I suspect PF70 modern issues will be worth more in their original boxes than slabbed.  

[Gordy]

Everyone has their own tastes, its what makes us unique.. personally though, i'll never buy a slabbed coin or get one of mine graded, its just not for me...

[CazLikesCoins]

5 minutes ago, Gordy said:

Everyone has their own tastes, its what makes us unique.. personally though, i'll never buy a slabbed coin or get one of mine graded, its just not for me...

Same. Rather buy raw and decide for myself what condition its in. I've seen some growlers come back from grading given far higher marks than I thought they were worth and other beauties marked down. In other peoples photies online. I suppose it depends on the mood of the judge on the day. If its anything like BGT they often send the wrong ones through.

[CazLikesCoins]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

It reminds me of old toys still in their packaging. People spending a massive premium on them and when they get them they hermetically seal them and never open them. Seems a shame to me.

Bit like photography. In my old club some people babied their cameras and almost afraid to use them in fear of getting them scratched, whatever. The people who got the most from photography were the ones with bashed up and worn cameras. No point putting things on pedestals. they'll degrade up there just as easily as down here.

Edited April 9, 2023 by CazLikesCoins

[SidS]

I do own slabbed coins - my SLQ set are all slabbed. So I'm not opposed to the entombment (I used to be). My fear is that it will dumb down the collector base but also make people chase the wrong things. To my eye there's no difference between an MS68 and an MS69. It's adding value artificially.

My SLQs are a mixture of MS63 to MS65 grades and I'm not sure there's much difference to be honest. A lot seems to come down to sharpness of strike, which to be honest is nonsense. A coin can be weakly struck and Uncirculated, just as a coin can have an epicly sharp strike and have passed hands a few times taking it to AU. Grade should be about wear and use, not eye appeal or strike quality.

[refero]

sometimes, as someone already pointed out, a slab its a guarantee. Especially if you cant go phisically to an auction, or check a coin with your hands/eyes. 

i myself "had" to buy some slabbed coins, especially during the first months of lockdown (summer-autumn 2020) when moving was difficult if not impossible. A couple of times i got disappointed, when i finally got the coin. Lesson learnt. 

More in general i feel this slab mania is changing the word of numismatic for good. And not in the right sense

[Chorlton]

I find slabs useful as they confirm the coin is what it says it is and also keeps my sticky mitts off them. For more general coins I am unlikely to come to harm with slabs do not really matter.

[Spyder]

12 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

It reminds me of old toys still in their packaging. People spending a massive premium on them and when they get them they hermetically seal them and never open them. Seems a shame to me.

I totally agree here. It is like watching those programs where a car has been stored in a garage from new with a few miles on the clock only for the owner to die years later. Had zero pleasure from the car and then their family members sell the car at auction to be garaged again. What a complete waste. Buy a car drive it hard and have fun, same with coins, handle and fondle.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Spyder

[TheShinyStuff]

Well said @refero - I totally agree. I don't have any particular gripe with grading, I understand the potential benefits. I don't have many coins worth grading, but like you I have the Jubilee & Memorial proof sovereigns. Looking forward to hopefully adding a Coronation to complete a nice little historic 3 coin set. 

Would my coins grade at 70? - I don't know. Do I care? - not really, they look fine to my eye. If I got a Coronation and could be guaranteed that all 3 sovereigns would hit a 70 would I grade them? - maybe, I'm not sure.

I think the RM presentation of the proof sovereigns is stunning, way better than a little plastic box, regardless of what the label says.

In the interest of full disclosure I admit I have often toyed with getting a few proof silver coins graded, just to see how the process works and if my assessment of a coin matched the achieved grade.

[SidS]

I once got a scarce die combination 1992 10p graded just for my own warped sense of humour. I'd graded it GVF, it came back EF! 😁🤫

[Britannia47]

7 hours ago, SidS said:

I once got a scarce die combination 1992 10p graded just for my own warped sense of humour. I'd graded it GVF, it came back EF! 😁🤫

Forget P.Ms - This is my 59 year old Liberty Dime!  and 1st NGC-courtesy of R.F.  Might put it on eBay. It’s a SAM70PLE😍!!