Disappointed with my first Royal Mint Proof Tudor Beast

[DrDave]

Good morning

I like to photograph all of purchases, and was keen to get a couple of my first proof from Royal Mint. This one looked ok in the capsule, but you can see on the back that there are a couple of blemishes around the edge. I've left it as shot so that you can see the discolouration.

I'll need to get in touch with Royal Mint for an exchange i guess. 

Any thoughts??

 

Thanks in advance

Dave

[westminstrel]

This is terrible and unacceptable!  Yes absolutely reach out to the RM.  They should cover return postage too. 

[GoldDiggerDave]

I would not send the Royal Mint the pictures of the coin out of the capsule, they may try and wriggle out of it.  
 

 

[DrDave]

1 minute ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I would not send the Royal Mint the pictures of the coin out of the capsule, they may try and wriggle out of it.  
 

 

Good point. Thank you.

[Orpster]

No need for any pictures, just go into your order history on the RM website and click to return on the order

I have returned over a dozen coins without any fuss or problem (all quality issues).  You just have to print the return label or take it to a post office and get it scanned.  The returns process from RM is about the only thing that they have got right.  You can specify if you want refund or exchange

[DrDave]

Great. 

I'll do that now

Many thanks

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I would not send the Royal Mint the pictures of the coin out of the capsule, they may try and wriggle out of it.  
 

 

Two questions:

How are the Royal Mint going to wriggle out of the capsule?

How did they get there in the first place?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

Good morning

I like to photograph all of purchases, and was keen to get a couple of my first proof from Royal Mint. This one looked ok in the capsule, but you can see on the back that there are a couple of blemishes around the edge. I've left it as shot so that you can see the discolouration.

I'll need to get in touch with Royal Mint for an exchange i guess. 

Any thoughts??

 

Thanks in advance

Dave

Those are remarkably good photos!

😎

[DrDave]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Those are remarkably good photos!

😎

Ah thank you.

Tricky to get a good shot with such shiny coins! Maybe an old well used groat would be easier?!

[TeaTime]

RM will honour distance-selling regs so sending it back shouldn't be a problem. Your post has bought up a few talking points though - what would be the position if a purchaser bought a silver proof coin, had a good old fondle of it  (sans capsule) then sent it back as no longer wanted ? What if someone stuck a silver proof coin in an atmosphere that caused tarnish and then send it back ? 

Maybe an insight into why RM prices are so high...

In my opinion the tarnish you are seeing is the result of oxidation and is guaranteed to appear on all silver items at some point. Normally i wouldn't expect to see it for many years - especially in respect of encapsulated silver. Silver exposed to atmospheric pollution, however, can tarnish pretty much at any point from a few seconds (in relation to highly sulphuric conditions) to decades in ideal conditions.

[DrDave]

1 minute ago, TeaTime said:

RM will honour distance-selling regs so sending it back shouldn't be a problem. Your post has bought up a few talking points though - what would be the position if a purchaser bought a silver proof coin, had a good old fondle of it  (sans capsule) then sent it back as no longer wanted ? What if someone stuck a silver proof coin in an atmosphere that caused tarnish and then send it back ? 

Maybe an insight into why RM prices are so high...

In my opinion the tarnish you are seeing is the result of oxidation and is guaranteed to appear on all silver items at some point. Normally i wouldn't expect to see it for many years - especially in respect of encapsulated silver. Silver exposed to atmospheric pollution, however, can tarnish pretty much at any point from a few seconds (in relation to highly sulphuric conditions) to decades in ideal conditions.

I emailed them with the description of the fault, and then discovered the returns button on my account so started the exchange process. In the meanwhile i had a reply accepting a return for my initial message (from a real person, not automated). Its all packed up and ready to go back tonight. 

I think that with any business, especially online, there are built in costs and losses to be expected. This is no doubt passed on in the retail prices. 

I wonder what happens to faulty coins? Scrapped, resold??

[LawrenceChard]

24 minutes ago, DrDave said:

Ah thank you.

Tricky to get a good shot with such shiny coins! Maybe an old well used groat would be easier?!

Yes, most older coins photograph better or more easily.

What kit do you use? (If it's not too much effort to list / describe).

I am partly asking as there will be many TSF members who might benefit.

😎

[DrDave]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, most older coins photograph better or more easily.

What kit do you use? (If it's not too much effort to list / describe).

I am partly asking as there will be many TSF members who might benefit.

😎

The camera is a mirrorless Canon R5 (its overkill perhaps, but its my new baby!). I'm using a 100mm macro lens stopped down to f16.

Its lit with 2 cheap led panels, the one in the left of the pic is the main light pointing at about 45 degrees from the top right of the coin. The light nearest the camera is a fill to reduce some of the shadows. 

The thing in the middle is an ikea lamp shade. It works like a light tent and softens the light as well as  removing reflections. I shoot at a slight angle otherwise the lens will reflect in the ever so shiny coins and you'll get lots of black patches on the raised details. 

The coin is cut out in Photoshop and put on a white background. For silver coins i like to desaturate a little for a more mono look.

 

[LawrenceChard]

12 minutes ago, DrDave said:

The camera is a mirrorless Canon R5 (its overkill perhaps, but its my new baby!). I'm using a 100mm macro lens stopped down to f16.

Its lit with 2 cheap led panels, the one in the left of the pic is the main light pointing at about 45 degrees from the top right of the coin. The light nearest the camera is a fill to reduce some of the shadows. 

The thing in the middle is an ikea lamp shade. It works like a light tent and softens the light as well as  removing reflections. I shoot at a slight angle otherwise the lens will reflect in the ever so shiny coins and you'll get lots of black patches on the raised details. 

The coin is cut out in Photoshop and put on a white background. For silver coins i like to desaturate a little for a more mono look.

 

I agree that the Canon R5 is probably slight overkill. I have one, but the photo department at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have to make do with a couple of 5Ds.

We also use a Canon 100mm macro lens (actually 2 of them I think), and a 180mm macro which is useful for bigger coins, and gives bigger working distance.

I am guessing that you have the latest Canon RF 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro

https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/100mm-macro.htm

Our main photographer is more than happy with our existing kit, but if I share the above link with him, it might influence him.

I liked the Ikea lightshade, and we have some Neewer LED panels at home for video stuff, etc.

You might want to think about axial lighting, which gets a mention somewhere in this thread:

 

 

[DrDave]

12 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I agree that the Canon R5 is probably slight overkill. I have one, but the photo department at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have to make do with a couple of 5Ds.

We also use a Canon 100mm macro lens (actually 2 of them I think), and a 180mm macro which is useful for bigger coins, and gives bigger working distance.

I am guessing that you have the latest Canon RF 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro

https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/100mm-macro.htm

Our main photographer is more than happy with our existing kit, but if I share the above link with him, it might influence him.

I liked the Ikea lightshade, and we have some Neewer LED panels at home for video stuff, etc.

You might want to think about axial lighting, which gets a mention somewhere in this thread:

 

 

I've seen axial lighting before. I may investigate further if i go completely crazy and order another bucket load of coins! . But i've used the lampshade on jewellery for a while now. It may give a little too soft light but its a preference i guess?

Yes the lens is the RF. and the main point with the R5 is that its almost twice as many pixels that the 5d, so great for detail or if you need to do a heavy crop.

 

[SemolinaPilchard]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

We also use a Canon 100mm macro lens (actually 2 of them I think), and a 180mm macro which is useful for bigger coins, and gives bigger working distance.

 

Actually - other way round.  The 180mm is more useful for smaller coins - it allows us to get nice and high - allowing the axial lighting stand to fit underneath and also to fill the sensor with the image of the coin.

For smaller coins getting them to fill the sensor on the 100mm is sometimes a struggle as the axial lighting stand gets in way so I'll do a quick swap over

Both 100mm and 180mm lenses are really nice and I use them equally - depending on coin size.

[SemolinaPilchard]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

I've seen axial lighting before. I may investigate further if i go completely crazy and order another bucket load of coins! .

 

I'm just compiling a guide as we speak/type for Axial Lighting.  It'll be ready in a few days and I dare say @LawrenceChard will post it on the forum.  It will definitely allow you to get perpendicular rather than that slight angle which produces some fall off and other reflections.  

[DrDave]

41 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

I'm just compiling a guide as we speak/type for Axial Lighting.  It'll be ready in a few days and I dare say @LawrenceChard will post it on the forum.  It will definitely allow you to get perpendicular rather than that slight angle which produces some fall off and other reflections.  

I just need to find where to get the half mirror......  The rest i already have 😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Actually - other way round.  The 180mm is more useful for smaller coins - it allows us to get nice and high - allowing the axial lighting stand to fit underneath and also to fill the sensor with the image of the coin.

For smaller coins getting them to fill the sensor on the 100mm is sometimes a struggle as the axial lighting stand gets in way so I'll do a quick swap over

Both 100mm and 180mm lenses are really nice and I use them equally - depending on coin size.

Don't let people know I don't know what I'm talking about!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

59 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I just need to find where to get the half mirror......  The rest i already have 😎

Ir is not a half mirror, it's just a piece of glass.

😎

[DrDave]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Ir is not a half mirror, it's just a piece of glass.

😎

Oh! I'll give it a go tomorrow.......