Living dangerously

[Dawnbreaker]

I kind of strayed outside my area of expertise again and need some help determining whether my faith in humankind is still justified or someone is ripping me off and I am a gullible idiot. 

In short I am not a huge fan of countries / entities that allow minting different types of coins for the sake of minting different types of coins. Hence I usually stay far away from coins from nations like Niu, Cook Islands, Solomon Islands, Palau etc. Included in the etcetera is also the Isle of Man. However a friend of mine spots military airplanes as a hobby. I am trying to get him into collecting silver but sofar to no avail. So when I came across  2 allegedly silver proof coins with WWII airplanes I thought it might be a good way to kickstart my friends collection. However I soon realized again why I tend to stay away from nations like this especially Isle of Man. Besides minting a silver version (mintage 30.000) they also made a 1 or 2 copper-nickel versions (unknown mintage) with exactly the same weight and diameter.   

Is there any way based on the photos to distinguish which type of coin I am dealing with here? 

[TheShinyStuff]

It's hard to tell just from pictures, but in my experience silver and base metal coins look and feel different. You could also try the magnet test, or specific gravity.

For what is worth, from the images, I think it looks like silver.

[Bigmarc]

I have been caught out a couple of times with wrongly listed silver jubilee coins on eBay (early days). 

I am a little more careful now. 

 

[Petra]

It’s a pain, however, sending back on eBay should not be an issue.  I was looking at a half decent watch for work (I work outside) and ended up sending two watches back before getting the one I now have. One turned out to be fake, one didn’t appear to work properly. I thought I was taking a bit of a gamble on eBay, however, I just messaged saying that the item was on its way back. No problems, just very annoying having to wait. Coins can be an even bigger issue.

[LawrenceChard]

9 hours ago, Dawnbreaker said:

I kind of strayed outside my area of expertise again and need some help determining whether my faith in humankind is still justified or someone is ripping me off and I am a gullible idiot. 

In short I am not a huge fan of countries / entities that allow minting different types of coins for the sake of minting different types of coins. Hence I usually stay far away from coins from nations like Niu, Cook Islands, Solomon Islands, Palau etc. Included in the etcetera is also the Isle of Man. However a friend of mine spots military airplanes as a hobby. I am trying to get him into collecting silver but sofar to no avail. So when I came across  2 allegedly silver proof coins with WWII airplanes I thought it might be a good way to kickstart my friends collection. However I soon realized again why I tend to stay away from nations like this especially Isle of Man. Besides minting a silver version (mintage 30.000) they also made a 1 or 2 copper-nickel versions (unknown mintage) with exactly the same weight and diameter.   

Is there any way based on the photos to distinguish which type of coin I am dealing with here? 

 

Yes, a Niton, or other, XRF machine would tell you in seconds:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/analysis-of-alloy-content-of-gold-sovereigns/180

😎

[CANV]

Great aeroplane tho  ! 

[Roy]

Copper-nickel I'm afraid.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19902.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces63849.html

[Dawnbreaker]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, a Niton, or other, XRF machine would tell you in seconds:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/analysis-of-alloy-content-of-gold-sovereigns/180

😎

I understand that and thanks for the reply but that is like saying that a navy seals-team can help me with a rodent problem or having a F1-pitcrew on standby for when I need to have my tires changed. There must be or at least I hope there is a solution available to the general public that doesn't require the availability of machinery that costs more than the collection of most people put together. 

Secondly does anyone have a clue why the Pobjoy Mint made these coins so similar? They must have known that along the line this would lead to a lot of confusion amongst collectors.  

[LawrenceChard]

35 minutes ago, Dawnbreaker said:

I understand that and thanks for the reply but that is like saying that a navy seals-team can help me with a rodent problem or having a F1-pitcrew on standby for when I need to have my tires changed. There must be or at least I hope there is a solution available to the general public that doesn't require the availability of machinery that costs more than the collection of most people put together. 

Secondly does anyone have a clue why the Pobjoy Mint made these coins so similar? They must have known that along the line this would lead to a lot of confusion amongst collectors.  

No, I don't know why, but it's not the first time I have seen similar with older Pobjoy items. They used to issued a multi-purpose certificate which detailed 3 different alloys of one coin type, but fail to make clear which it accompanied!

It looks like @Roy has found the answer for you though.

😎

[Dawnbreaker]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

Copper-nickel I'm afraid.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19902.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces63849.html

.....thanks although I am disappointed with the outcome but what makes you come to the conclusion that the ones portrayed in my original post are in fact the copper-nickel ones!?

[Roy]

Yes, you could be right. I looked deeper.

The coin you display is quite different from a Cu-Ni offering from eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233207315610?hash=item364c3d3c9a:g:ggUAAOSwDK9cak~E

 

[Fishy321]

If you have a local bullion dealer,jewellers or pawn shop it might be worth asking them to test it / or any worry some coins especially if you have bought something of them, as theshinystuff mentioned a magnet test is cheap and quite reassuring 

[ArgentSmith]

ping test with smart phone app

[James32]

5 hours ago, Dawnbreaker said:

I understand that and thanks for the reply but that is like saying that a navy seals-team can help me with a rodent problem or having a F1-pitcrew on standby for when I need to have my tires changed. There must be or at least I hope there is a solution available to the general public that doesn't require the availability of machinery that costs more than the collection of most people put together. 

Secondly does anyone have a clue why the Pobjoy Mint made these coins so similar? They must have known that along the line this would lead to a lot of confusion amongst collectors.  

Thickness? The Silver will be slightly thinner than the nickel version,if you can find the specs somewhere. 

Specific gravity test and a ping test ( plenty of apps available) 

 

[Dawnbreaker]

On 26/05/2022 at 08:37, Bigmarc said:

I have been caught out a couple of times with wrongly listed silver jubilee coins on eBay (early days). 

I am a little more careful now. 

 

Were they "fake" or just alternative (non-silver) but legitimate versions?

Anyway, I contacted the seller about my reservations and asked him how he knew that they were silver. The answer was they were sold to him that way and that he was not aware of a non-silver variant. He did buy them at an official store though. Unfortunately with no boxes or verification. So he says he is gonna check with his "expert" and he is going to report back to me. I am thinking about sending them in to get them graded just to be sure.....or is that a rather costly occasion for a couple of nice but potentially "low value" coins?  

[Bigmarc]

8 hours ago, Dawnbreaker said:

Were they "fake" or just alternative (non-silver) but legitimate versions?

The alternative version sold as the silver version. Think the problem was the quick listing generator on eBay, when people don't know what they are selling they may just click on something similar. 

[Dawnbreaker]

Yup, mine turned out to be the copper-nickel version as well. I contacted the buyer and he was gracious enough to cancel the purchase. Case (almost) closed and lesson learned. Thank you all for the help! 

[modofantasma]

Maybe removing them from the capsule and handling them isn't an option but if you flip a copper nickel coin or some other metal it makes a different sound to a silver 50% and different again to a 92.5% coin 

[TeaTime]

Pop them in a bag with a boiled egg..... You'll soon know if a coin has silver in it !

If the tarnish then comes off with a dunk in silver dip you can be confident it's not a cupro-nickel variant.

[StackemHigh]

On 26/05/2022 at 19:44, Dawnbreaker said:

I understand that and thanks for the reply but that is like saying that a navy seals-team can help me with a rodent problem or having a F1-pitcrew on standby for when I need to have my tires changed. There must be or at least I hope there is a solution available to the general public that doesn't require the availability of machinery that costs more than the collection of most people put together. 

Secondly does anyone have a clue why the Pobjoy Mint made these coins so similar? They must have known that along the line this would lead to a lot of confusion amongst collectors.  

Lawrence must have one of these machines in his basement. Just load up a hold all and swing round to his gaff and get them tested by a pro. Each coin only takes a second or two for piece of mind!

[Dawnbreaker]

On 28/06/2022 at 01:00, StackemHigh said:

Lawrence must have one of these machines in his basement. Just load up a hold all and swing round to his gaff and get them tested by a pro. Each coin only takes a second or two for piece of mind!

I live in the Netherlands so that will be an "expensive" trip with todays gasoline prices. Anyway I am planning on eventually getting at least the questionable ones tested. They pictured ones above turned out to be CuNi so I almost bought a cat in the bag. Nice coins still but not for the price that they were offered for. Thanks for the advice though.