1887 Jubilee Sixpence Designs - Similarity to Half Sovereigns - Fraudulent Gilding - Denominations

[LawrenceChard]

1887 Jubilee Sixpence Designs - Similarity to Half Sovereigns - Fraudulent Gilding - Denominations

There have been a few discussions recently which touched on the subjects mentioned in this topic heading.

We took some photographs recently which will demonstrate some of the points:

First: The reverse of an 1887 Victoria Jubilee Sixpence, First Type, Crowned Shield in Garter:

A nice enough design, but:

The reverse of the 1887 Jubilee Half Sovereign also had a Crowned Shield.

Now, obviously TSF members will all spot the difference instantly, but...

Remember these 2 designs were new at the time, there was no internet or Google to instantly check, and if you got offered this as payment:

Might you think it was one of the new half sovereigns, and give change for it?

It is a gilded sixpence.

Apparently, back in 1887, lots of people did, and so there were complaints.

This "first" type was discontinued, and became known to collectors as the "withdrawn" type, and it was replaced by a different design:

Which had a "Crowned Value in Wreath". As it quite clearly states its denomination as SIX PENCE, it was no longer likely to fool anybody!

😎

Edited April 28, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[GoldDiggerDave]

The 1887 double florin aka “Barmaids ruin” only 2mm smaller than  a crown, lead to barmaids being fired by the tavern owners for giving change for a much higher denomination coin. Hence the name. 
 

 

[Britannia47]

Ah, so this is where you boys get to when not on gold!

This is a gilded sixpence I picked up many years ago for only £2, because the dealer said it was worthless. Its in superb condition however, although the plating has worn a bit thin.

Judge for yourselves. I was going to enter this 'bullhead' obverse into 'ugliest' coin...but this will do 😁

 

[LawrenceChard]

4 minutes ago, Britannia47 said:

Ah, so this is where you boys get to when not on gold!

This is a gilded sixpence I picked up many years ago for only £2, because the dealer said it was worthless. Its in superb condition however, although the plating has worn a bit thin.

Judge for yourselves. I was going to enter this 'bullhead' obverse into 'ugliest' coin...but this will do 😁

 

Also known as the "drunken date" sixpence?

The 7 of the date must have been punched after a particularly heavy weekend!

😎

16 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

The 1887 double florin aka “Barmaids ruin” only 2mm smaller than  a crown, lead to barmaids being fired by the tavern owners for giving change for a much higher denomination coin. Hence the name. 
 

Does size matter?

😎

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Does size matter?

It does where coins are concerned.

[LawrenceChard]

25 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It does where coins are concerned.

In which case:

Me with the Perth Mint one tonne gold nugget.

😎

[sovereignsteve]

Some pocket change😁

[SidS]

Somewhere I've got a worn James II shilling which has been gilded. There was also a very poor attempt to engrave sceptres between the shields to make it look like a guinea.

Not sure it would have been too convincing though to be honest.

 

[SidS]

8 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

1887 Jubilee Sixpence Designs - Similarity to Half Sovereigns - Fraudulent Gilding - Denominations

There have been a few discussions recently which touched on the subjects mentioned in this topic heading.

We took some photographs recently which will demonstrate some of the points:

First: The reverse of an 1887 Victoria Jubilee Sixpence, First Type, Crowned Shield in Garter:

A nice enough design, but:

The reverse of the 1887 Jubilee Half Sovereign also had a Crowned Shield.

Now, obviously TSF members will all spot the difference instantly, but...

Remember these 2 designs were new at the time, there was no internet or Google to instantly check, and if you got offered this as payment:

Might you think it was one of the new half sovereigns, and give change for it?

It is a gilded sixpence.

Apparently, back in 1887, lots of people did, and so there were complaints.

This "first" type was discontinued, and became known to collectors as the "withdrawn" type, and it was replaced by a different design:

Which had a "Crowned Value in Wreath". As it quite clearly states its denomination as SIX PENCE, it was no longer likely to fool anybody!

😎

It wasn't just the sixpence of 1887. The shilling was also frequently gilded too, which is one of the reasons the head was changed to a larger version in 1889, so the shilling and sovereign obverses were more instantly distinguishable.

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, SidS said:

It wasn't just the sixpence of 1887. The shilling was also frequently gilded too, which is one of the reasons the head was changed to a larger version in 1889, so the shilling and sovereign obverses were more instantly distinguishable.

Yes, we do see some gilded 1887 jubilee shillings, but the jubilee sovereign reverted to St George and the Dragon, so there should have been little chance of the two coins being confused. 

[SidS]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, we do see some gilded 1887 jubilee shillings, but the jubilee sovereign reverted to St George and the Dragon, so there should have been little chance of the two coins being confused. 

I know, I've always thought that too.