Acceptable Premium on Platinum?

[StackemHigh]

Over the last few months i've been looking at buying a little more platinum as silver has become expensive with VAT and higher premiums than previously used too.

Where oh where can i buy a 1/4 T oz of platinum for less than £600 - £700 range? All my usual sources have no Pt or are even more expensive. I'm probably only wanting a few different Pt coins over the next year but i can't spend this amount on Pt when Gold is around £360 - £400 per 1/4 T oz!!!!

Gold price is substantualy higher but cheaper to buy even when VAT is added to Pt.

Is the secondhand special scheme a legitamized scam?

Gold is around £1312 T oz

and 

Platinum is around £805 T oz

Edited July 23, 2021 by StackemHigh
Can't type!

[Spark268]

7 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

buy a 1/4 T oz of platinum for less than £600 - £700 range? All my usual sources have no Pt or are even more expensive. I'm probably only wanting a few different Pt coins over the next year but i can't spend this amount on Pt when Gold is around £360 - £400 per 1/4 T oz!!!!

it defies logic !

the Britannia coin company had 2017-19 quarter proof plat brits for 299 for a while, I am not sure if this offer still stands but the proprietor does use the TSF I believe.

[Uksilverstackers]

9 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

Where oh where can i buy a 1/4 T oz of platinum for less than £600 - £700 range?

RM 2018 and 2019 1/4 oz at £550 in stock today 👍

RM 1/4 Britannia Platinum Proof 2019

RM 1/4 Britannia Platinum Proof 2018

Edited July 23, 2021 by Uksilverstackers

[StackemHigh]

5 hours ago, Uksilverstackers said:

RM 2018 and 2019 1/4 oz at £550 in stock today 👍

RM 1/4 Britannia Platinum Proof 2019

RM 1/4 Britannia Platinum Proof 2018

I will assume that this £550 is inclusive of VAT & P+P to keep a level playing field. But even with a great £50 saving from the royal mint at the equivilent of £2200 T oz and spot at £790 ish today that is still  some huge premium from the royal mint with all the damage that their proof come with as standard! Maybe quality for a pure stacker but not the price.

[Uksilverstackers]

Proof Coin and Limited Mintage with associated premium I guess.

Includes VAT but extra £9 for SD.

But you did only ask where you could buy 1/4oz Platinum for less than £600 😉

Edited July 23, 2021 by Uksilverstackers

[StackemHigh]

11 hours ago, Spark268 said:

it defies logic !

the Britannia coin company had 2017-19 quarter proof plat brits for 299 for a while, I am not sure if this offer still stands but the proprietor does use the TSF I believe.

I have looked for Pt on the site but nothing in my price range. @BritanniaCoinCompany got any 1/4 T oz in stock?

[StackemHigh]

1 hour ago, Uksilverstackers said:

Proof Coin and Limited Mintage with associated premium I guess.

Includes VAT but extra £9 for SD.

But you did only ask where you could buy 1/4oz Platinum for less than £600 😉

I would not be buying anything directly from the royal mint! Sky high pricing with poor production techniques and no quality control i will buy from else where. Is there somewhere else that sells these. I know @BritanniaCoinCompany has sold Pt at a realistic price before.

[CadmiumGreen]

So if I recall correctly, The Royal Mint has end of year sales on the previous years 1/4 ounce platinum Britannia proofs, at very reasonable prices…I have taken advantage the past couple of years…but then again, I am also unencumbered by VAT in US.

[Spark268]

BCC had these on for a while but have sold out.

 

https://britanniacoincompany.com/buy-coins/proof-sets/2017-uk-quarter-ounce-platinum-proof-britannia/

https://britanniacoincompany.com/buy-coins/proof-sets/2018-prince-of-wales-quarter-ounce-platinum-proof/

 

[Wampum]

The royal mint still have an * beside some off the 1/4 oz plat coins, so there is a chance that they will have a few listed again for sale.

There is a Platinum 2017 £5 that is showing as a stamp pack that has not sold out, however never seen this, so not sure if it's the Piedfort.

From what I have seen with Platinum premiums, it is definitely the hardest Metal to stack in more ways than one. It is nearly 2 to 1 however you are paying more for a Platinum 1/4 than you would a gold 1/4 excluding the VAT.   

[LawrenceChard]

1976 Panama 150 Balboas Platinum Proof 150th Anniversary

A collectable as opposed to a bullion issue:

Premium?

[Wampum]

20 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

1976 Panama 150 Balboas Platinum Proof 150th Anniversary

A collectable as opposed to a bullion issue:

Premium?

I think a reasonable price would be £292 retail, would love this if was in the market to buy. Really nice coin. 

[Wampum]

Hi @StackemHigh ,I have some platinum 1/4 that you might like, if you want them.

Never sold anything on the the forum however if it's  something you would be happy with I can work on a price.       

[StackemHigh]

On 29/08/2021 at 14:10, Wampum said:

Hi @StackemHigh ,I have some platinum 1/4 that you might like, if you want them.

Never sold anything on the the forum however if it's  something you would be happy with I can work on a price.       

With the release of the new tiger lunars coming up my next couple of months will be really expensive. Thanks for the kind offer though.

[Pete]

Seeing that Platinum has "tanked" I was hoping to see this as a buying opportunity.
However the premiums are way over the top so wondering what is going on in the market and why the consistently high premiums.
Then on top the dreaded VAT.
Message to @Chards how about accepting a margin similar to that on gold coins and using the differential VAT ??
That would place you in a favourable position compared to all the "vultures" out there.

[zxtm99]

It feels kind of weird to me. Over the years, I haven't really paid much attenstion to PM spot prices, and had I been given a choice of a 1 oz Pt Brit for £960 or a 1 oz Au Brit for £1,330, I would have gone for the Pt without a second's thought. Is gold really expensive at the moment, or is Pt really cheap? The ratio just feels so out of whack that even with premiums plus VAT, Pt just looks cheap?

[KevinFlynn]

Gold is expensive and platinum is cheap, but the main move came from platinum and it's relationship to palladium.

Palladium shot up and is the new platinum now. So what used to be platinum > gold > silver has become palladium > gold > silver, with platinum as the odd one out.

[Spark268]

palladium has been tanking recently. its now worth only twice as much as platinum.

Its basically the same metal so expect a 1:1 ratio soon.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Spark268

[zxtm99]

When you say "basically the same metal" are you referring to their industrial use? E.g. palladium has barely half the density of platinum (it's not much heavier than silver, whereas platinum is denser than gold). Palladium is also much rarer than platinum, so they are quite different in some respects?

Edited October 10, 2021 by zxtm99
typo

[KevinFlynn]

Platinum and palladium are similar in their technical use, mainly as catalysts, as far as I know.

Platinum is being used as a catalyst for diesel engines, palladium the same for petrol engines. Platinum use went down with diesel engines being under pressure lately, palladium use went up. As both are largely commodities (rather than jewelry or monetary metals) this translates into the prices we see at the moment.

That is as far as I understood it.

Onto more similarities, both are supposed to be pretty interchangeable in function. Palladium supposedly got into use because of the high price of platinum. So there would be the possibility of industrial use changing back, reverting commodity prices.

A little shaky on this second paragraph, though.

[Spark268]

35 minutes ago, zxtm99 said:

When you say "basically the same metal" are you referring to their industrial use? E.g. palladium has barely half the density of platinum (it's not much heavier than silver, whereas platinum is denser than gold). Palladium is also much rarer than platinum, so they are quite different in some respects?

that's true, but using your line of analysis, you can refute the argument that two potatoes are the same vegetable, by looking and comparing each with a microscope.

in the grand scheme of things, they are basically the same metal, and their uses are largely substitutable with each other in all but of the most extreme edge use cases, which I am sure you will no doubt point out !

 

 

[Roy]

@cliveb13 is the chap who could tell you about the properties of platinum and palladium 👍

[cliveb13]

Thank you @Roy 

happy to give some info. My own interest in Pt & then Pd was part of a collectible aim to build an element collection. This predates my interest in Sovereigns or gold & before I found TSF 

palladium, Platinum & Rhodium are all used in catalytic converters. They are excellent catalysts (they aid a chemical reaction without being changed themselves) & in this case they are being used to convert CO (carbon monoxide) to CO2 and also to reduce nitrous oxide in the latest versions of ICE engines. Some of you will have diesel Ad Blu engines & the Adblu reacts with NOx ( nitrous oxide ) to create Nitrogen & water. Both harmless 

so it’s not Pd or Pt. both have roles. 
 

I have collected both since 2014. Pt has traded in a range without breakout & has been consistently close to where I bought in terms of £. Pd quadrupled to over £2100 an ounce & today sits at £1500. Of course this is before , bid /ask spread & vat. 
 

I think it’s very difficult to make ££ with Pd or Pt because if you want to exit you need to find someone who wants to pay in a similar way to when you bought or a dealer will only offer you spot-3% . It has to move a lot before your very good 15% premium buy is in a tradeable profit. I myself have bought several Pt pieces that the seller says were priced below. I collect Pt too as Roy & others know but it’s an intrinsic interest in elements & now coins. I have some Pt, Pt & Rhodium & if someone wanted some I would sell for a premium above spot but I haven’t sold any cos no one is looking & my interest is acquiring. I bought two pieces of Pd on TSF & they are great. 
 

Physically Pd is grey, whereas Pt is more silver like. Pd is harder too & therefore more difficult to make as a coin. I have an MS70 & a PF69 & they are outstanding. 
 

finally Rhodium. Rh is a great catalyst & is not mined for itself. It’s found in the extraction process for other metals. Rhodium hit $12k an ounce about 13 years ago before falling dramatically back to $1000 or so only months later. Thinking that there must be something in this great element I bought 5 Oz. The price to $26k an ounce in Feb this year before dropping back to $15k or so where it sits to day. I was very lucky. I don’t think anyone can make £ out of Rh today as the bid / ask is big, there is vat & the market is tiny. But for me I own a few small pieces of one of the rarest elements on Earth. The total sum of Rh ever refined would fill 3 small sheds. 
 

Hope this is of interest and here is a pic of the set of these amazing elements in the next post 

Good luck Clive 

 

 

[cliveb13]

Rh Au

Pd Pt