Gold: The Answer To Being Debanked?

[GoldCore]

It is said that the term ‘bank’ comes from the Italian ‘banca’ meaning bench. This is back when we used banks as safe havens for storing multiple real assets, particularly gold. The shelves on which the gold was stored were referred to as ‘the bank’ or ‘banks’. Hence we now ‘bank’ our money and use ‘the bank’ for various financial transactions. 

Nowadays, that term means a lot more than it did back then. The banking system is something very few people understand the complexities of, or have even had the need to make full use of all the different products and institutions that lie within it. 

It isn’t what it once was. 

Despite this, it remains as integral to daily life as it did when we relied on it to keep our hard earned gold safe.  For many the ability to hold a bank account is akin to being able to exist in modern society. 

There was a time when to exist outside of the banking system was something that was associated with your economic status, rather than your beliefs. Financial inclusion has long been at the top of the agenda for many governments around the world. To have a bank account is to be able to partake in daily economic life – pay your bills, travel to work, save, heat your home, feed your children – all made possible by the virtue of having access to a bank account. 

Those who do not have a bank account are usually referred to as the ‘unbanked’. For a minority, it is a conscious decision not to have a bank account. But for the majority of those who are unbanked it is a circumstance of a difficult existence.

 

13 million people and 5.9 in the EU and US respectively do not have access to formal financial services. Efforts have been ongoing to reduce this number by putting systems in place that make banking more accessible for a wider selection of minority groups including refugees, prisoners, human trafficking victims, and so on. 

And rightly so, money does give you freedom. So when you are unable to access it, your life and the options available to you are restricted. Nobody wants that for their fellow citizens. 

You’re Wrong! You’re Debanked!

So what does it say when the banking system on one hand wants to support those who have had to flee their home country because of their political beliefs, and yet on the other hand they are prepared to debank a citizen of their own country because of?…oh yes, their political beliefs?

We are of course referring to Nigel Farage. Farage is a divisive character. It’s rare that he garners sympathy from the mainstream media and the wider political spectrum. But, that is exactly what is happening this week. 

Patrick Karim on gold, inflation and the next break out

 

At the risk of repeating something you have already heard. Mr Farage has had his account with British-banking stalwart Coutts shut down. They originally said it was a funding issue. But a document accessed by Mr. Farage suggests it has a lot more to do with his opinions and political beliefs than it is to do with the amount of cash he held in the bank (of which there was enough to meet the criteria). 

“The committee did not think continuing to bank NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were at odds with our position as an inclusive organization,”

The move has somewhat backfired for Coutts. In an attempt to effectively render Mr. Farage null and void from anything associated with them, the story is now appearing in over 4.7 million search results on Google. 

The move has also brought up a whole area of political debate which is long overdue – how much can one’s freedom of speech impact your freedom to exist as a normal citizen?

As Farage himself said on the BBC last night, “Is it reasonable that law abiding citizens can be de-banked and become non-people?”

The British Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak (definitely no fan of Farage’s) even tweeted:

“This is wrong. No one should be barred from using basic services for their political views. Free speech is the cornerstone of our democracy.”

The straw that broke…

Farage isn’t the only unpopular person to have found himself sat out in the cold from his bank. Others associated with Brexit and unpopular views to do with transgender rights have also been similarly treated. 

But, worryingly, there is nothing about Coutts’ actions that appear to go against any rules. As FCA Chair Ashley Alder told the Treasury Select Committee:

“For banks as well as other commercial enterprises, it’s fundamentally up to them to choose who they do business with…I’m not aware of anything in the FCA rulebook that goes to the point around how banks judge their own attitude to reputational risk, if that’s what it comes down to.”

So there you have it. If your bank doesn’t like something you legally stand for, or you legally tweeted, or someone you’re legally associated with, or something you can legally belong to then they can shut down your bank account. 

This is a very scary move indeed, and something anyone (regardless of beliefs or even social media use) should sit up and pay attention to. As Mr. Farage said himself,

“Without a bank account, you’ve effectively become a non-person. You don’t actually exist. It’s like the worst regimes of the mid-20th century, be they in Russia or Germany, you literally become a non-person…

“I’m beginning to think that perhaps life in the United Kingdom is now becoming completely unlivable because of the levels of prejudice against me,” he said. 

It isn’t right that a commercial bank can legally decide to make someone feel like that, to render someone’s existence to a point that they feel like they are a ‘non-person’. But, it seemingly isn’t illegal to do so. 

Buy gold, buy your own sovereignty

Usually, we talk about gold and the role it plays in a balanced portfolio. How it acts as financial insurance in times of inflation or global economic stress and so on. 

But, cases such as Nigel Farage’s bring us back to the very original reason why people chose (and still choose) to hold gold: because it is theirs, and only theirs. 

The rise of debanking points to one of the biggest arguments to own gold – once your money is held within the banking system then you have very little control or say over how you can use it. 

The beauty of gold ownership is that it exists outside of a politically motivated banking system. A system that thinks more about its own image than it does about the security of your money and the ease at which you are allowed to use it. 

[silvergaga]

Great article here, lots of happy TSF members.

[Zhorro]

58 minutes ago, GoldCore said:

 

The rise of debanking points to one of the biggest arguments to own gold – once your money is held within the banking system then you have very little control or say over how you can use it. 

 

The only slight problem I see here is that you would not be able to make any of your normal day-to-day payments (utilities, council tax, etc) or be able to buy any food!

Ah, you say, convert your gold into cash at a pawn brokers (or even here on the Forum), but the chances are people would want to make a bank transfer rather than pay out in cash (traceability in case the gold is stolen). 

Also, without a bank account there would be difficulty in receiving money (most employers would require your bank details, as would any pension providers).

I appreciate that there are still people without bank accounts, but it must make things very difficult.

[silvergaga]

What about our TSF members who have a lot of their gold and silver held in London vaults?

[Zhorro]

1 minute ago, silvergaga said:

What about our TSF members who have a lot of their gold and silver held in London vaults?

I think even the banks would have to return this if they closed an account!

[Bratnia]

Sold a gold coin for, two chickens and three eggs profit, that I reported on my tax return, but the taxman hasn't yet come back with how much tax is due. Don't think I owe much, maybe just a few eggs that I'm more than happy to post to him/her 

The more a state gains control, seeing your movements, where you get money from and spend it, even your thoughts and issues as gifted via internet searches, the more it will look to enforce and extend that control. Where anything outside of that is deemed to be a means to tax evade and stamped down. States and banks have such controls because people have allowed them to continually extend such controls, to levels where as said you pretty much can't survive outside of those controls.

When others know where and how much you have (money) its no longer yours, its just a loan, potentially partially "confiscated" at any time.

Whilst gold can be outside of the system at present, a time will come when ever expanding state controls will make it illegal. Anyone who values their gold should strive to put up barriers preventing a total transition over to state/bank controls. Doing so will at some point come into direct conflict, but as ever you have to fight for your rights or otherwise see them lost. Sadly however is that there is little general desire for such a fight.

There are possible options, such as Bitcoin and Bisq, where as I understand it you can USPS/Western Union money orders direct to trusted strangers in exchange for Bitcoin. Where they never know your name or address and neither does the Post Office when you pay in cash. Bitcoin might then be used for trading, a issue there however is its price volatility. A possible resolution is a more constant value 'coin', such as backed by 50/50 stock/gold. If such a coin could be easily used for trading then more might accept it as a form of payment and where the likes of Bisq cater for direct transfer, peer to peer. A factor there however is that upon the rise of such alternatives so the state is inclined to stamp them out to leave no other option than its preferred choice. Not a trivial battle as if the state loses then so is its currency inclined to collapse/fail. As such its likely a war that's already been won by the state, even though it may lose some battles along the way, and where gold wont be the answer for the unbanked.

[ZRPMs]

I think we are that far down the digital road there's no turning back. I recently bought a small bathroom suite from B&Q with cash. Only £800. The way people acted was eye opening. Staff and customers. The masses attitude towards cash is turning to one of mistrust. The reaction was as if a modern Al Capone. the young girl behind me said to her significant other. "I've never seen so much cash"

The other thing is taxes and death, the only constants. If the government will only accept a bank transfer when you pay your taxes. Its a bank or jail. We all need to use cash every possible time we make a purchase. 

[Bigmarc]

The only time I use cash now is for Facebook purchases or when I give the homeless fella outside McDonald's something. Other than that it's pointless, the surprising thing is, is that before COVID I was a cash only person, never paid with card but I kind of turned a corner on that one and try not to make daily life to difficult for myself. The one thing I haven't done yet is put payment options on my phone but this is more a option of self control. 

As for the op, just spread it all about and don't put all your eggs in one basket. Nobody can get by without a bank. 

[ZRPMs]

Its not that I'm a cash only, More that I don't want the choice taken from me. Up where I'm at I've seen cashless stores change their minds as profits and sale drop off. Recently in the storms, at the local hardware shop when the power cut had knocked out the card machine I managed to buy the goods I needed. Not so with others that had only cards, phone or whatever. In towns or cities I can imagine it's all geared towards cashless. Rural areas are different. I use cash when I can to ensure the option is still there. 

Getting de-banked today would be horrendous. I agree, bank with multiple banks, But in all reality if one says no, They all will. Most are only part of the others but even if not they all sign up to the same code of practice. Currently there isn't really a substitute for being able to have access to the banking system. All the options have been taken away from us. You used to be able to pay for your utilities at the post office. If you try it now. If they are accepted there is an additional charge. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by ZRPMs

[Bratnia]

Cash is just short term transactional currency, most should hold just enough cash to service transactions (spending) for perhaps a month ahead at most. Beyond that and stocks/bonds are a common savings place for surplus capital. You can however learn by real money, generational wealth, where land, art and gold are the more common preference. Gold and art are portable, can be moved to wherever policies are less punitive. Homes (land) can be sub divided, perhaps two homes in two different countries, along with a yacht home that can also serve the purpose of the means to move gold/art. One should be prepared for a location/country where the laws may suddenly move against them, such as where owning gold is made illegal or excessively taxed.

Mere mortals, average Joe, can somewhat emulate that, perhaps by owning a home in the UK, holding US dollars invested in US stock, along with gold. If a country makes conversion between those assets and regular cash (bank account) difficult then the signs are not good. As is common in the UK's present case, where much 'money' is flighting the country. A regret there is that the top 1% pay a third of the total tax take, so as they leave so the remainder are left with having to pay 50% more in taxes just to fill that hole.

The 'horrendous' situation is that it is so difficult to live without a bank account. Rightfully and it should be just fine/comfortable for anyone who doesn't have a bank account. Cash should be King, not some banker.

[n1k0s]

At the risk of annoying some of the hardcore TSF members i will say that this is the reason i buy into gold and bitcoin. i see both as insurances against loss of privacy, monetary debasement and loss of purchasing power while carrying very little management effort. 
As for cash, at this moment i am waiting on the sidelines for the bubble of nasdaq to burst

[Bratnia]

6 hours ago, n1k0s said:

At the risk of annoying some of the hardcore TSF members i will say that this is the reason i buy into gold and bitcoin. i see both as insurances against loss of privacy, monetary debasement and loss of purchasing power while carrying very little management effort. 
As for cash, at this moment i am waiting on the sidelines for the bubble of nasdaq to burst

In US Dollars, QQQ is up +39% in 2023, cash earning nothing down -30% in QQQ purchase power terms. In 2022 QQQ was down -32%, cash earning nothing gained +47% in QQQ purchase power terms.

What you may perceive as a gain from having waited for a dip/dive often lost more whilst waiting. 50/50 tends to be a good choice. Where the other half is deployed after a dive. 50 stock value halves, 50 cash value unchanged, dump the cash into buying more shares and you hold 1.5 times more shares than had you fully loaded into stock at the start. Whilst at least having partaken in a proportion of the stock gains prior to the dive.

[KleinerVogel]

In your article, you describe Nigel Farage as "unpopular" but I think it's worth pointing out and correcting you slightly that he is also hugely popular with the majority of people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (not so much Scotland) who voted (in majority) to leave the EU. He is also a regular presenter on GBnews and just recently won the peoples vote for the TRIC awards (Television and Radio Industries Club) where he won the best presenter on TV award. So he's only really unpopular depending on who you ask. And not as unpopular as some like to think or make out.

 

If you ask the BBC/Skynews and or people in London/west minister bubble what they think of him, you will probably get a negative response, but if you ask the majority of the British people as a whole, I think you would find much more positive feedback.

[Bigmarc]

Amber Heard was the most googled person in 2022. Does that make her popular or unpopular? I mean all I remember her for is doing a personal act on Mr depps side of the bed. 

[KleinerVogel]

34 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Amber Heard was the most googled person in 2022. Does that make her popular or unpopular? I mean all I remember her for is doing a personal act on Mr depps side of the bed. 

Well I didn't say Nigel Farage was the most googled person of 2023, did I? I'm just pointing out it's inaccurate to label him as "unpopular" It depends on who you ask. It's one sided to simply dismiss the man as unpopular when there are lots of people out there who support the man and like what he stands for.

[Bigmarc]

16 minutes ago, KleinerVogel said:

Well I didn't say Nigel Farage was the most googled person of 2023, did I? I'm just pointing out it's inaccurate to label him as "unpopular" It depends on who you ask. It's one sided to simply dismiss the man as unpopular when there are lots of people out there who support the man and like what he stands for.

Was trying to be funny. Nevermind. 

All politicians are unpopular.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Bigmarc

[KleinerVogel]

31 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Was trying to be funny. Nevermind. 

All politicians are unpopular.

Oh okay, I thought you were attempting a sneaky strawman then and got a little confused. My apologies for misreading the attempted humor.

 

[flyingveepixie]

On 20/07/2023 at 21:06, Bratnia said:

Sold a gold coin for, two chickens and three eggs profit, that I reported on my tax return, but the taxman hasn't yet come back with how much tax is due. Don't think I owe much, maybe just a few eggs that I'm more than happy to post to him/her 

The more a state gains control, seeing your movements, where you get money from and spend it, even your thoughts and issues as gifted via internet searches, the more it will look to enforce and extend that control. Where anything outside of that is deemed to be a means to tax evade and stamped down. States and banks have such controls because people have allowed them to continually extend such controls, to levels where as said you pretty much can't survive outside of those controls.

Well the bloody taxman wont be getting any of my hens eggs - bloody parasite.    You're right when you say the state and the banks only have such control is because we've let it happen.  I read a post on a YT vid this morning claiming the Brits single greatest en masse talent is apathy and I think the guy was correct.  Also, in another YT vid I heard that in the Selby by-election on Thursday 90% of votes cast were for either Lib, Lab, Green, or Con. The point being that while a lot of folks are just plain stupid and thick to just keep asking for more of the same abuse at every election, there is also a sizeable faction who don't even realise the chains they are being held in and will get a massive shock if they ever waken up.

On 20/07/2023 at 22:35, Bratnia said:

Gold and art are portable, can be moved to wherever policies are less punitive.

Definitely, although I can't afford a yacht!

2 hours ago, KleinerVogel said:

In your article, you describe Nigel Farage as "unpopular" but I think it's worth pointing out and correcting you slightly that he is also hugely popular with the majority of people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (not so much Scotland) who voted (in majority) to leave the EU. He is also a regular presenter on GBnews and just recently won the peoples vote for the TRIC awards (Television and Radio Industries Club) where he won the best presenter on TV award. So he's only really unpopular depending on who you ask. And not as unpopular as some like to think or make out.

 

If you ask the BBC/Skynews and or people in London/west minister bubble what they think of him, you will probably get a negative response, but if you ask the majority of the British people as a whole, I think you would find much more positive feedback.

TBH I can't make up my mind about Farage.  Sometimes I think he's spot on and other times I think he's just a very clever cynic who's number one interest is Farage and his own career. Overall, I think he is a pretty good spanner in the works of the machine but I wish he wouldn't be so mealy mouthed about certain subjects.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

18 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

TBH I can't make up my mind about Farage.  Sometimes I think he's spot on and other times I think he's just a very clever cynic who's number one interest is Farage and his own career. Overall, I think he is a pretty good spanner in the works of the machine but I wish he wouldn't be so mealy mouthed about certain subjects.

Pretty much my thoughts. I like Farage in general but I only support him 100% on one issue - the European Union. I've watched many hours of him debating the stooges in the European Parliament. I broadly agree with what he says about corruption at Westminster and immigration but on other issues, not so much

[Bigmarc]

On 22/07/2023 at 12:10, KleinerVogel said:

Oh okay, I thought you were attempting a sneaky strawman then and got a little confused. My apologies for misreading the attempted humor.

 

What about Elon musk. Popular or unpopular? 

[Thelonerangershorse]

Well, he's destroying twitter for starters so that gets my vote.

[KleinerVogel]

2 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

What about Elon musk. Popular or unpopular? 

I don't know, why are you asking me?

[Thelonerangershorse]

8 minutes ago, KleinerVogel said:

I don't know, why are you asking me?

I believe you were supposed to provide an opinion, and maybe some reasoning, If we wanted to know for sure It's easy enough to set up a poll.

[Tortoise]

Two of Nigel Farage's children have German passports, so have all the benefits of EU membership, such as freedom of movement.

As for him being removed as a customer of Coutts, you may find thisarticle interesting:  https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/24/farage-and-coutts-its-not-mccarthyism-its-customer-due-diligence/

[Bigmarc]

9 hours ago, KleinerVogel said:

I don't know, why are you asking me?

He is another guy making an impact but seems to divide the people. 

Just making conversation, I will leave you alone now but I was just carrying on a interesting point you made.