Coins of the realm auction n.40 29 June

[refero]

i checked this morning Coins of the realm auction 40 results; i unfortunately couldnt participate live due to work; and i am a bit puzzled..

113 lots got unsold (out of 193); that 's 58,5% !! 

we've been commenting this auction house's performances recently on this forum and i am more and more surprised by their "commercial strategy"; i got from forum members that the reason is due to "too high starting prices". They are of course free to do whatever they consider appropriate, but i dont see the point in organizing an auction and selling only 40% of lots (where other auction houses like Coin Cabinet sell 100%)

another interpretation would be a general "fatigue" of the sovereign related market but i dont see the same outcome elsewhere..

and in my opinion this is even more bizarre as they auction modern coins which carry a very low "premium" over the spot price

Edited July 2, 2023 by refero

[ant1882]

I signed up for COTR but decided not to bother with them, prices don't seem great for buying or selling... and as you mention lack of sales.

Spoke with someone there over the phone and they were quite pushy on getting my coin sent off to be graded (lengthy and expensive process), they couldn't hang up quick enough when I decided against it.

Will have a look at Coin Cabinet, not heard of them before.

[Paul]

Auctions happening every week more less across the different firms 

[refero]

my understanding is that when an auction is settled and organized, the main (only?) goal would be to sell as many lots as possible. Possibly 100%?

if i was the owner i would consider a 58.5% sold rate as a total failure

Edited July 2, 2023 by refero

[Spyder]

I do not know if the whole blame is with COTR. I think sellers are probably setting their reserves too high and maybe they going with it just have a good amount of coins in auction. I think if they did auctions every two or three months, they could be more selective and have a better starting price. 

[refero]

nothing against CotR. I am just commenting..

if i was to sell modern coins with no (or little) numismatic premium, i would start from 1 gbp (Heritage style), and maybe placing a reserve selling price (spot + 5%); those coins would never go under the spot price and the low initial price would stimulate competition.

If i place a starting price at spot + 5% the risk is too attract no interest whatsoever (and maybe just a single winning bid) Competition amongst buyers is the fuel of every auction

[Zhorro]

2 hours ago, refero said:

i checked this morning Coins of the realm auction 40 results; i unfortunately couldnt participate live due to work; and i am a bit puzzled..

113 lots got unsold (out of 193); that 's 58,5% !! 

we've been commenting this auction house's performances recently on this forum and i am more and more surprised by their "commercial strategy"; i got from forum members that the reason is due to "too high starting prices". They are of course free to do whatever they consider appropriate, but i dont see the point in organizing an auction and selling only 40% of lots (where other auction houses like Coin Cabinet sell 100%)

another interpretation would be a general "fatigue" of the sovereign related market but i dont see the same outcome elsewhere..

and in my opinion this is even more bizarre as they auction modern coins which carry a very low "premium" over the spot price

I've just had a look at the auction.  Amazingly, Lot 12, the 2020 Brexit Sovereign, sold for £455 !  The RM release price for this coin was £800 !   This price depreciation is what you would expect when selling something bought from the overpriced private mints.  I think this shows you need to be very careful what you buy new even from the RM.

[MJCOIN]

I've sold quite a few coins with COTR over the past 2 months and on the whole I've been pleased with the results.

I believe there are many factors at play at the moment.  The general cost of living and rising interest rates will make many nervous about over committing themselves at the moment.  The price of gold has fallen quite a bit in the last month or so and the number of new releases from the RM have drained many bank accounts leaving little cash left to invest in auctions.  I often find the summer months are less likely to achieve good prices - Spring and Autumn seem better for that.  Also (as someone mentioned) - the starting price is set by the seller and if they aren't prepared to adjust their expectations in line with the current market, coins simply won't sell.

I was surprised that one coin in particular fetched way more than I expected - the 1995 proof half sovereign (graded PF70).  Just goes to show that when two or more people want a particular coin high prices can still be achieved. 

Over all I like COTR auctions - I think they are well run and with 0% buyers premium they are competitive in this regard.

 

[Petra]

Lots of reasons, however. you put a coin in for sale, you put a reserve on it. When you do you have to think about how much you want and how much they will deduct for fees. For most auctions the auction houses are never keen on reserves, however, nowadays it is very easy to take your business elsewhere. Some auction houses start at the reserve and won’t go any lower, others start low and hope to get up to and pass any reserve. All stuff that can cloud an auction. Then, either no one wants your stuff, or a couple do and you get a nice surprise. You go to an ordinary auction including coins elsewhere and most if not all will sell.

[jultorsk]

Reserves kill bidding activity (fact) - that's why TCC has 100% sell-through in their "starting bid 10% below melt" auctions, and COTR does not.

In theory at least it should work so that if the seller places an aggressive reserve and the lot fails to sell, the seller is liable for paying the buyer's premium. COTR does not have buyer's premium's though, so there's no 'deterrent' for setting over-optimistic reserves. 🤷‍♂️

[refero]

15 minutes ago, MJCOIN said:

I believe there are many factors at play at the moment.  The general cost of living and rising interest rates will make many nervous about over committing themselves at the moment.  The price of gold has fallen quite a bit in the last month or so and the number of new releases from the RM have drained many bank accounts leaving little cash left to invest in auctions.  I often find the summer months are less likely to achieve good prices - Spring and Autumn seem better for that.  Also (as someone mentioned) - the starting price is set by the seller and if they aren't prepared to adjust their expectations in line with the current market, coins simply won't sell.

True. But...

last Coin Cabinet auction last 27 June auctioneed 163 lots and all of them sold..

i consider myself a regular buyer and i can tell that (example) if i am to buy a coin worth 450-500 gbp i prefer to see a very low entry price, checking it every now and then, eventually placing an early bid, and getting ready to fight for it live. And i can tell you that, even if i consider myself an experienced collector, i exceeded "live" several times the limits i had originally imposed myself. It's the thrill of competing for something i guess. Getting back to the 450-500 gbp coin, i can end up paying it 500 gbp if i find myself in the middle of a bidding fight, and i can leave it there if it starts from 480 gbp. Strange, indeed, but that how auctions work

Edited July 2, 2023 by refero

[JamesH]

6 minutes ago, refero said:

last Coin Cabinet auction last 27 June auctioneed 163 lots and all of them sold..

Doesn’t necessarily equate to a successful auction for all sellers though. Successful for the auction house and their share of the fees but doesn’t mean sellers will see it as a success

Of course if many are going back with repeat business then in the whole they’re happy with the service/cost but I don’t think all lots selling is, on its own, proof of a successful auction (for all parties)

[refero]

4 minutes ago, JamesH said:

Doesn’t necessarily equate to a successful auction for all sellers though. Successful for the auction house and their share of the fees but doesn’t mean sellers will see it as a success

Of course if many are going back with repeat business then in the whole they’re happy with the service/cost but I don’t think all lots selling is, on its own, proof of a successful auction (for all parties)

I do agree. But once you set an auction i guess there are some costs you will have to pay, regardless of what you sell. And selling less than 60% of lots to me equate to a commercial failure. 

Also an unsold lot generates less interest in the same lot in the future (if i am to buy a coin that got unsold for 450 gbp i will tend to consider that price too high on following auctions)

[Paul]

1 hour ago, jultorsk said:

Reserves kill bidding activity (fact) - that's why TCC has 100% sell-through in their "starting bid 10% below melt" auctions, and COTR does not.

In theory at least it should work so that if the seller places an aggressive reserve and the lot fails to sell, the seller is liable for paying the buyer's premium. COTR does not have buyer's premium's though, so there's no 'deterrent' for setting over-optimistic reserves. 🤷‍♂️

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't 

Water finds its own level and the buyer/bidder will pay/bid what they feel is right 

[ZRPMs]

I've bought from many auctions. Having bought from COTR on a few occasions now I can't fault them. Not sure what you've got against them or wound you up enough to write a second thread questioning their business model. Perhaps you should ask them. However as it has already been mentioned there are many reasons why this could be the case. Time of day. What else is on, on that day(Sport, cliff hanger of a soap episode, Washing the car), The price of gold ( Up or down), Advertisement, Pay day next week, The list goes on. What I have noticed is that they do have some very nice coin's, Proofs, Graded, Rarer coins, SOTD and not so many run of the mill coins. Perhaps their target market is the higher end numismatic coins and that's a harder market to crack. May be this will give us a chance to get a nicer coin at a more reasonable price. Their seller's fee is less than most auction houses and they don't charge a buyer's premium. They are a small firm and as such every time I've dealt with them their personal customer care was better than larger auction houses I've been to. I will continue to use them and support them as and when I can. 

On a side note and I mean no disrespect. But you're based in Italy. Surely there are more local auction houses to you. Coin's of the Realm charge 10% commission fee to the buyer when the coin sells. The coin cabinet also charge 10% commission to the seller and they also charge a buyers premium, However, I could not find out what it was. Not very buyer friendly.

[refero]

1 hour ago, ZRPMs said:

Not sure what you've got against them or wound you up enough to write a second thread questioning their business model. Perhaps you should ask them.

nothing against them. I feel its my full right to write a thread if i consider so, as long as i m not offending anyone (which i m sure i didnt). Its a forum and i like to share thoughts, to give and to receive inputs. I bought from CoTR in the past but that doesnt stop me from analyzing their business model, if i like. Or to write about them a third or a fourth time, if i ll decide so.

i m based in Italy true that. and?

Edited July 2, 2023 by refero

[ZRPMs]

52 minutes ago, refero said:

nothing against them. I feel its my full right to write a thread if i consider so, as long as i m not offending anyone (which i m sure i didnt). Its a forum and i like to share thoughts, to give and to receive inputs. I bought from CoTR in the past but that doesnt stop me from analyzing their business model, if i like. Or to write about them a third or a fourth time, if i ll decide so.

i m based in Italy true that. and?

That's absolutely fine. Even if you have offended anyone to be fair. Offence is usually taken not give. I just thought that after the first time you might have had your answers. And as for me mentioning you being based in Italy. I thought I gave my reasons. "Surely there are more local auction houses to you to ponder over.". I'm just not sure why you need to repeatedly question just this one that's in a different country. Anyway No worries, crack on. You posted your thoughts in a new topic. I just assumed you'd invited other's to give theirs. So, I gave mine. All the very best

[refero]

to be honest the first time i mentioned CoTR as i didnt understand why they list their lots randomly and not by year as all others auction houses). As for auction houses in Italy, there is plenty but unfortunately i m in love with British coins and of course the offer here is way more limited

Edited July 2, 2023 by refero

[ZRPMs]

Have you tried a wanted ad on the forum. I've only done it once but it was very effective. I think I had about 6 coins from it and made 2 good contacts with dealers on the forum. 

[dicker]

COTR auctions have worked well for me in the past - good customer service, fast despatch and a good range of coins that  I collect.  I also have had a great phone support from them.

They have also listed for me what are genuinely rare coins which is always attractive.  I do note that they are one Auction house that seems to bother to closely examine coins and list them properly with “x over y” identified and listed.

I used CC a couple of times but for my own reasons will not do so again.  

Best

Dicker