How many good coins were ruined by early Victorian Jewellers

[Spyder]

Hello member

This my 1790 Guinea, I think it is in very good condition, but has been ruined by the soldering.

Like the title says, probably lost  between 25% and 50% of its value. This must have happened to thousands of good coins.

Interested to see what others think

Spyder

Edited January 26, 2023 by Spyder
American spelling

[CollectForFun]

It's always such a pity when a rare old coin is damaged due to being used in jewellery.

On the other hand, some of those coins wouldn't perhaps otherwise be preserved to our times at all. So it is what it is. It is better to accept that a certain coin looks as it does, otherwise you will never really enjoy it in your collection and then it's maybe better to let it find a home at someone else...

[ZRPMs]

Sadly, Lots. Ironically though. There would be even less about if they hadn't. How many went to the melting pot. As far as they were concerned. It was an out date coin. Of little use other than the intrinsic gold value of little more than the new sovereign (£1). Not that the masses would have had one. Then WWI and WWII. It is amazing really that as many as there are have survived. 

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Spyder said:

How many good coins were ruined by Victorian Jewelers

Hello member

This my 1790 Guinea, I think it is in very good condition, but has been ruined by the soldering.

Like the title says, probably lost  between 25% and 50% of its value. This must have happened to thousands of good coins.

Interested to see what others think

Spyder

Not necessarily by Victorian jewellers. Guineas probably got mounted sometime from 1816 onwards.

Unless there are hallmarks on the mount, which is uncommon, it would be difficult to know.

This guinea is in better condition than many mounted guineas, so is not entirely ruined.

Soldered mounts can be removed, and if done carefully can be almost undetectable.

As someone said, when it was mounted, it was probably only worth about £1, so in one sense there was nothing to ruin, and mounting it probably saved it from the melting pot.

😎

[Spyder]

36 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

This guinea is in better condition than many mounted guineas, so is not entirely ruined.

Soldered mounts can be removed, and if done carefully can be almost undetectable

😎

I was thinking about doing this, but if done badly could make it worse then leaving it alone.

Lawrence, if you had this coin, would you risk trying to remove the solder?

I agree, after what CollectForFun and ZRPMs have said that the mount has probably saved this coin from the melting pot when coins got changed to Sovereigns, so thanks for that.

[LawrenceChard]

12 hours ago, Spyder said:

I was thinking about doing this, but if done badly could make it worse then leaving it alone.

Lawrence, if you had this coin, would you risk trying to remove the solder?

I agree, after what CollectForFun and ZRPMs have said that the mount has probably saved this coin from the melting pot when coins got changed to Sovereigns, so thanks for that.

I would leaave it alone.

It would need a good bench jeweller to do it right, giving it a lengthy pickle in hot acid.

Edited January 27, 2023 by LawrenceChard

[Spyder]

21 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I would leaave it alone.

It would need a good bench jeweller to do it right, giving it a lengthy pickke in hot acid.

Thanks.

It has been like this for probably 150 years and like this it will probably stay for all the remaining years that I will own it.

[Midasfrog]

This is what is known as a second life. Its first life was as a coin being used as currency then later it had a second life as Jewellery.

I had a silver George III crown with a similar fitting attached I removed it very carefully on the bench just using basic tools, it is now into its third life as collectors coin 🙂

[sovereignsteve]

Personally I would remove the mount. I would rather have a slightly marked coin than one obviously ruined by the mount and is no longer a coin. It can be done easily by the amateur, it takes time but the solder can be removed completely. I have done loads of these but invariably the edge has been damaged by the original soldering heat. How much it is disfigured you can't tell until you do it. I don't know if an expert jeweller can repair the edge damage satisfactorily, I did know a pro who could do a really good job but he's not in business any more.

[Solachesis]

The Turks love soldering coins and it breaks my heart. 

118117475-turkish-gold-coins-in-jewelry-store-in-istanbul-turkey.webp

[mffiv]

37 minutes ago, Solachesis said:

The Turks love soldering coins and it breaks my heart. 

118117475-turkish-gold-coins-in-jewelry-store-in-istanbul-turkey.webp 194.7 kB · 1 download

Jewellery made from the Ziynet coins are a tradition in itself 🇹🇷👍🏼

[Solachesis]

Just now, mffiv said:

Jewellery made from the Ziynet coins are a tradition in itself 🇹🇷👍🏼

Yeah, I had a non soldered ziynet, lovely coin

[mffiv]

Just now, Solachesis said:

Yeah, I had a non soldered ziynet, lovely coin

You’ll find the Ziynet coins will come with a loop as standard, the idea being people ‘stack’ them onto a cord, building up their investment.

Where as the ‘Ata Lira’ gold coins don’t have a loop usually.

Did your Ziynet coin have the loop removed or did you manage to get one without?

[Solachesis]

5 minutes ago, mffiv said:

You’ll find the Ziynet coins will come with a loop as standard, the idea being people ‘stack’ them onto a cord, building up their investment.

Where as the ‘Ata Lira’ gold coins don’t have a loop usually.

Did your Ziynet coin have the loop removed or did you manage to get one without?

İt was without, unless I'm blind and missed an obvious removal area. I don't have it anymore, but I regret parting with it now 

 

[mffiv]

5 minutes ago, Solachesis said:

İt was without, unless I'm blind and missed an obvious removal area. I don't have it anymore, but I regret parting with it now 

 

That looks quite clean and I don’t see an obvious sign of loop removal, could have been without from the start.

Here’s my Ata Lira gold bullion I had a loop put on and a 🇹🇷 made on the other side (in 22ct, same as the coin) done way back in 2008.

Turkish jewellers sometimes solder these Ata Lira coins onto rings, but I think a ring mount without solder would be much better, like Sovereign rings. 

[Spyder]

So, it seems even today coins are being ruined by soldering. In 100 years time, someone will be asking the same question.

[Spyder]

8 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Personally I would remove the mount. I would rather have a slightly marked coin than one obviously ruined by the mount and is no longer a coin. It can be done easily by the amateur, it takes time but the solder can be removed completely. I have done loads of these but invariably the edge has been damaged by the original soldering heat. How much it is disfigured you can't tell until you do it. I don't know if an expert jeweller can repair the edge damage satisfactorily, I did know a pro who could do a really good job but he's not in business any more.

I have looked at this before as solder melts at a much lower heat. There is plenty of articles about how to do it. 

The good thing about my Guinea, it is only soldered in a very small area, where I have seen others (clock face) soldered as far as between 10 and 2. Anyway it is what it is and I for now will keep it this way.

 

Thanks to everyone who has left an opinion

[Leonmarsh]

There were 1,912 ruined exactly 

[pricha]

9 hours ago, Spyder said:

I have looked at this before as solder melts at a much lower heat. There is plenty of articles about how to do it. 

The good thing about my Guinea, it is only soldered in a very small area, where I have seen others (clock face) soldered as far as between 10 and 2. Anyway it is what it is and I for now will keep it this way.

 

Thanks to everyone who has left an opinion

I've had a few similar and was told time and again nothing can be done. Solder has lower melt than gold so i expected to be easy to remove without much damage to the coin but apparently not. Also old Solder could be very a dangerous poison.  😳  I was lucky discuss with an expert jeweller who told me to leave the coin alone.  Basically a waste of money to buy such coins and expect to restore them

 

[Spyder]

17 minutes ago, pricha said:

 Basically a waste of money to buy such coins and expect to restore them

 

I would agree to a point. If someone bought close to spot and tried to make it look better, then they could increase it's value. I myself would not bother on a coin of this condition. If this was a Guinea with very worn out details, I would give it a go as it would always be worth it's weight in gold.

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, pricha said:

Solder has lower melt than gold so i expected to be easy to remove without much damage to the coin but apparently not.

The solder can be melted and the mount removed. However, you can't get all the solder off the coin without dissolving it off chemically. As i said, when you do this, there is always damage left behind due to the original heat used to solder.