NGC: "NGCX" a new 10-point Grading Scale for Coins.

[AurumArgenti]

I think Sal sums up my thoughts and experience of NGC and grading. They have the market by the 🍑 in terms of prices and desirability. It seems like a very inconsistent processes. 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by AurumArgenti

[Shep]

I think this is excellent. It smacks of nothing but a money grabbing move. NGC have had collectors by the stones for far too long and with this move have likely undermined their reputation and kneecapped their credibility.

Hopefully we can get back to enjoying coins and see a bit of a market reset and move away from the pump and dump of graded modern collectibles.

[DdraigAur]

I'd consider myself part of the demographic that NGCX is targeting, a cross collector that is more confident in other collectables (pokemon cards in my case) such as trading/sports cards, video games, comics. My initial reaction was that it's weird seeing a coin with 10 grade. I'm pretty comfortable with the Sheldon scale now, but that wasn't the case in the beginning. The main strength I can see would be the continuity between collectable classes. If your prior collection is graded with CGC and they introduce an NGC coin slab that is visually similar to your existing ones, and a comparable grading scale, I can see that being quite appealing.

Third party grading is well established in cards (PSA, CGC, BGS), comics (CGC), video games (WATA, VGA, soon CGC), I think grading and encapsulation will become the default for every collectable in the future.

[Arganto]

On 17/11/2022 at 18:48, YorkshireStacker said:

Coin collectors: The numbers all go to seventy. Look, right across the board, seventy, seventy, seventy and...

NGCX: Oh, I see. And most grading scales go up to ten?

Coin collectors: Exactly.

NGCX: Does that mean it's better? Is it any better?

Coin collectors: Well, it's sixty better, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be happy at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your collectable. Where can you go from there? Where?

NGCX: I don't know.

Coin collectors: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

NGCX: Put it up to seventy.

Coin collectors: Seventy. Exactly. Sixty better.

NGCX: Why don't you just make ten better and make ten be the top number and make that a little better?

Coin collectors: [pause]  These go to seventy.

Are you Terry Pratchett? 

[GoldDiggerDave]

11 hours ago, DdraigAur said:

I'd consider myself part of the demographic that NGCX is targeting, a cross collector that is more confident in other collectables (pokemon cards in my case) such as trading/sports cards, video games, comics. My initial reaction was that it's weird seeing a coin with 10 grade. I'm pretty comfortable with the Sheldon scale now, but that wasn't the case in the beginning. The main strength I can see would be the continuity between collectable classes. If your prior collection is graded with CGC and they introduce an NGC coin slab that is visually similar to your existing ones, and a comparable grading scale, I can see that being quite appealing.

Third party grading is well established in cards (PSA, CGC, BGS), comics (CGC), video games (WATA, VGA, soon CGC), I think grading and encapsulation will become the default for every collectable in the future.

I'm not keen on it, but happy if it pulls some fresh blood into the market.   Is only available with a limited number of dealers and only coins after 1982 so it will not damage the numismatic reputation of the sheldon scale.    Don't get me wrong the first person who puts a modern proof sovereign in one of these NGCX slabs should be burned at the stake.  

At least they are trying to do something different so can't blame them for that. 

 

 

[Arganto]

Pffft, got this beat. Send me your coins, I will grade them on a scale of 1-5 (10 is double digits, that's just hard). I will then take several high definition photographs and even a video of the coin slabbed in pure Waterford crystal. I will upload the content to a cloud or a rainbow or whatever, and sell you an NFT of the process. I will, um, store your coin in a secure location. It will always be yours, and you can even display your digital crystal-slabbed coin on your hand butter covered tablet/phone/14" Technicolour telly. 

Boom; better grading, better slabbing, better storage. The modern world is just great!

[DdraigAur]

9 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

the first person who puts a modern proof sovereign in one of these NGCX slabs should be burned at the stake. 

I wouldn't mind a bit of infamy. 

[LawrenceChard]

On 18/11/2022 at 09:17, SidS said:

Can I get my old slabs slabbed to preserve them? 😁

That's where this is heading. Whatever happened to collecting the coin?

Oh, is that what's in those plastic case thingies?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

14 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I'm not keen on it, but happy if it pulls some fresh blood into the market.   Is only available with a limited number of dealers and only coins after 1982 so it will not damage the numismatic reputation of the sheldon scale.    Don't get me wrong the first person who puts a modern proof sovereign in one of these NGCX slabs should be burned at the stake.  

At least they are trying to do something different so can't blame them for that. 

Blood?

You want blood?

What's wrong with your pound of flesh?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

14 hours ago, Arganto said:

Are you Terry Pratchett? 

No, otherwise he would mention the rim, as well as the disc!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

On 23/11/2022 at 20:12, DdraigAur said:

I'd consider myself part of the demographic that NGCX is targeting, a cross collector that is more confident in other collectables (pokemon cards in my case) such as trading/sports cards, video games, comics. My initial reaction was that it's weird seeing a coin with 10 grade. I'm pretty comfortable with the Sheldon scale now, but that wasn't the case in the beginning. The main strength I can see would be the continuity between collectable classes. If your prior collection is graded with CGC and they introduce an NGC coin slab that is visually similar to your existing ones, and a comparable grading scale, I can see that being quite appealing.

Third party grading is well established in cards (PSA, CGC, BGS), comics (CGC), video games (WATA, VGA, soon CGC), I think grading and encapsulation will become the default for every collectable in the future.

Worth reading:

https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/game-grading-firm-wata-hit-with-lawsuit-for-manipulating-retro-market-3225137

There are also much other similar stuff, including about Heritage Auctions, and its owner.

😎

[YorkshireStacker]

On 24/11/2022 at 07:49, Arganto said:

Are you Terry Pratchett? 

All I will say is, we were never seen in the same room at the same time. Make of that what you will....

 

21 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

otherwise he would mention the rim

That's a topic I save for my other 'special interest' forum

[StackemHigh]

On 25/11/2022 at 20:17, YorkshireStacker said:

All I will say is, we were never seen in the same room at the same time. Make of that what you will....

 

That's good i'm sure the smell would be terrible.

[StackemHigh]

Do NGC have new investors or new owners?

Maybe trying to get more cash in to pay for the payday loan.

[kimchi]

37 minutes ago, StackemHigh said:

Do NGC have new investors or new owners?

Maybe trying to get more cash in to pay for the payday loan.

Jay-Z and his mates isn't it?

[Simonz]

Just browsing through one of Spink's upcoming auctions and they are regularly passing judgement on graded coins, "preposterous grade" see pic. Also they admit to de-slabbing coins when they disagree with the grade. Doesn't instil much confidence in existing grading neveremind new ones!

Quote

 

Many thanks for your email regarding lot 4060. Yes, the coin has been removed from the NGC holder.

 

The decision to do this was made because it was felt that the grade AU Details was an unfair assessment of a rather honest coin. We therefore felt that leaving the coin in the slab was not beneficial to it.

 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

I do think the coins that get graded NGCX will become a bit of a joke with some collectors ..........However I can see the marketing and social media making some of these coins hyper inflated to drag more into the market.  Not saying any wrong doing or anything like that but it's almost a given we will see some massively inflated coins in these new grading system once it hits the market.    Might be worth grabbing a few early ones  to sell at 10X the price to the pokémon and comic book collectors.  They are happy to buy collectables with zero intrinsic value. 

 

 

[CollectForFun]

On 17/11/2022 at 17:31, LawrenceChard said:

I also received an e-mail, shich was not from NGC, but from some outfit calling itself "Certified Collectibles Group", but with the link you have shown.

The full e-mail said:

Introducing NGCX, a 10-point Grading Scale for Coins

NGC is excited to introduce NGCX, the first 10-point grading scale for coins. The 10-point grading scale has long been the standard for most collectibles, including comic books, sports cards, trading cards and more. Now, with NGCX, coin collecting will benefit from the same intuitive and approachable scale. The new 10-point grading scale will supplement the 70-point Sheldon scale, which will continue to be used by NGC for regular submissions. A Certified Collectibles Group affiliate, NGC is the world leader in third-party coin certification because of its constant innovation and collector focus, with NGCX being only the latest example. While there is no difference in quality between a grade on the 10-point scale and a grade on the 70-point scale, the difference for the hobby is exponential. New collectors now have a clear path to embrace coin collecting. The path is NGCX.

Which makes it sound like the relatively unknown entity called NGC has been honoured by CCG who have allowed it to be one of their affiliates.

I suspect it may be the other way round if the truth were told.

Because I only scanned it very quickly when I first saw it, I thought it was some dodgy, small, new US dealer trying to big themselves up by plugging their own grading and slabbing,

This snap conclusion may have been wrong, but I still have a suspicion that "Grading and Slabbing" is still of more advantage to the companies operating it, and the dealers using it, than it is to coin collectors.

Am I being cynical? Yes! Am I right? Who knows?

😎

We coin collectors perhaps tend to overestimate the premier status of NGC in the overall collectibles grading industry. But the fact is, that while NGC grades around 4 million coins a year (info based on data from the previous 3 years), the cards grading equivalent PSA (not from this CCG family of companies but a competitor) reportedly graded over 1 million cards in October 2022 alone. So the reach and significance of some of these other grading companies may well be much greater than we would ever be willing to admit.

Edited November 27, 2022 by CollectForFun

[CollectForFun]

8 hours ago, Simonz said:

Just browsing through one of Spink's upcoming auctions and they are regularly passing judgement on graded coins, "preposterous grade" see pic. Also they admit to de-slabbing coins when they disagree with the grade. Doesn't instil much confidence in existing grading neveremind new ones!

 

De-slabbing a coin (or any graded collectible for that matter) if the owner isn't happy with the grade is quite normal I would say.

Spink just tries to reach as high price at the auction as possible. If the slab doesn't help its case, there's no reason why they should keep it slabbed. The coin is still the same and the interested buyer is free to decide if they want it or not.

I understand that when you can't see the coin in person you must rely on pictures and description provided, but that's the cost of bidding online without knowing what exactly you are bidding on. Those are the rules of the game we play (and therefore it's important to remember that we do it mostly for fun! ☺️).

[SidS]

I've de-slabbed loads of coins, I like them raw.

Only my Standing Liberty coins remain slabbed and these are mostly PCGS rather than NGC.