Do you stack historical silver coins?

[goldsilverdash]

Do you stack historical silver coins? Why? Why not?

So far, the silver side of my stack consists of 100% modern bullion coins (mainly Maples, Kangaroos, Philharmoniker, and Krugerrands). But I am considering diversifying my silver stack by adding some historical coins, but I'm not sure about it or what coins to get.

• Are historical coins worth getting at all from a stacking (as opposed to collector) perspective?
• Is 80% worth looking at, or only 90+% purity?
• How much of a premium is reasonable to pay for older silver coins?
• Do you think historical coins may become more popular in the future given the very high premiums and VAT on new silver bullion coins?

Sorry if these questions have been asked before.

[modofantasma]

You can often pick up the old silver coinage in various purities at low premiums under 5% even down to scrap prices if it's just for stacking silver weight.

It gets quite bulky to store but I think it's worth it if you're into silver. Nicer collectible examples usually would sell for more but if the coin is readable and appropriately priced it should be fine. 

Higher purity is more desired but again depends what the cost is. If I had a choice of 92.5% British and 50% British at the same price I'd take higher purity. 

[goldsilverdash]

15 hours ago, modofantasma said:

You can often pick up the old silver coinage in various purities at low premiums under 5% even down to scrap prices if it's just for stacking silver weight.

It gets quite bulky to store but I think it's worth it if you're into silver. Nicer collectible examples usually would sell for more but if the coin is readable and appropriately priced it should be fine. 

Higher purity is more desired but again depends what the cost is. If I had a choice of 92.5% British and 50% British at the same price I'd take higher purity. 

Thanks for your input! I'm considering Swedish 5 kronor from 1935, it is 90% silver and contains 22,5 g of fine silver. It seems rather common around here, I've seen them at local antique dealers and online trading platforms as well. So far I haven't seen them at a premium quite as low as 5%, but it is still very low compared to new 1 oz 999+ silver bullion coins. This difference in premiums is even more striking if you would be looking at fractional silver coins. I'm thinking that it would be a good thing to have a variety of sizes, also as it would increase the barter friendlyness of the stack.

On the gold side of things, I already have some older coins, about 20% of my gold stack is in historical coins, maybe would make sense to aim for a similar proportion on the silver side as well.

[SidS]

Well this is complex.

First off, yes I stack historic silver coins (and only historic coins). As a collector of coins primarily, I was accumulating a collection long before I had even come across the stacking community. It's important to note therefore that I have never bought bullion or modern pieces, and that any comments below obviously have a bias in favour of the numismatic stuff.

Firstly, anyone who has read Maloney or Rickards will note that they emphatically state that you should avoid numismatic coins and modern commemoratives at all costs and thereby stick to the cheapest and greatest quantity of silver for your buck... cost averaging etc.

I however, have to say that whilst I totally agree with them regarding modern commemorative issues, I think they have overlooked some potential gains that can be got from historic coins.

Firstly, definitely take their point with ultra rare coins that the price of them is high, the premiums can be high and the market to sell to will be restricted. So in this sense they are right, not a great investment. My Anglo-Saxon coins, too specialist and have gone no where over the past 15 years - some prices have even gone down.

However, mid-range/grade, problem free coins of popular series appear to do quite well. For example the Victorian young head and Edward VII silver coins (GVF through to UNC grades) have done extremely well over the past twenty years.

My top tip is to find coins that are scarcer and rarer in date, or better in grade or less often seen (even if thought to be common).

For example three crowns for sale all in VF, 1887, 1888 and 1889, all the same price. Which do you pick? Well 1887 was the first year, many survive in tip top grade, 1889 is the highest mintage and turn up everywhere! So 1888 it is.

You need a little knowledge, but for a good start buy a coin catalogue (Spinks for British, The Redbook for US) and then just browse eBay or auction sites and see which dates crop up time and time again. If you see something that doesn't turn up often, that's the one to get.

When I bought gold - If I saw a high grade St George sovereign at £240, a shield sovereign at £240 but lower grade - I'd buy the shield. Now if I'd seen an ex-mount guinea at £240 - it would have been the guinea I'd have bought.

There's lots of potential in historic coinage, but the three most important points to take home are:

1) Know what you're buying.

2) Know what is popular or likely to become so.

3) Forget the spot price - unless you're buying junk silver.

[CollectForFun]

If your base case is that silver will go up, then it shouldn't in my opinion make a difference whether you stack bullion or junk silver, as both should in theory go up respectively to their metal content.

In practice, there may be differences in how premiums on bullion vs. junk will evolve over time but that's impossible to predict. Premium on .999 silver should in theory never become negative, while on junk silver, it's possible. And if it happens once that silver loses all its investment asset status and becomes purely industrial metal, then I think .999 silver will become more valuable then lesser fineness. But if that ever happens, the spot price will be far from where it's now so such details won't be really so important...

So should you or should you not? Try out and see for yourself. Be prepared old silver coins won't be all shiny and clean as your brand new bullion, but to me it's part of their appeal. Plus old coins are free history lesson to me. I never learnt so much about history than from collecting old coins...

[goldsilverdash]

4 hours ago, SidS said:

3) Forget the spot price - unless you're buying junk silver.

All valid points, though I don't think I'll ever become a collector myself.

How would you define "junk silver"?

[goldsilverdash]

1 hour ago, CollectForFun said:

If your base case is that silver will go up, then it shouldn't in my opinion make a difference whether you stack bullion or junk silver, as both should in theory go up respectively to their metal content.

In practice, there may be differences in how premiums on bullion vs. junk will evolve over time but that's impossible to predict. Premium on .999 silver should in theory never become negative, while on junk silver, it's possible. And if it happens once that silver loses all its investment asset status and becomes purely industrial metal, then I think .999 silver will become more valuable then lesser fineness. But if that ever happens, the spot price will be far from where it's now so such details won't be really so important...

So should you or should you not? Try out and see for yourself. Be prepared old silver coins won't be all shiny and clean as your brand new bullion, but to me it's part of their appeal. Plus old coins are free history lesson to me. I never learnt so much about history than from collecting old coins...

Good points! As stackers, what we want above all else I guess is to get as many ounces as we can for the lowest possible cost. But that may not be the only consideration, here are two others:

Diversification is important I think, so there is something to be said for having not only one kind of coin, but more than one kind. So, for me it might make sense now to add some older silver coins to my stack. Coins of lower purities and smaller sizes.

Also, I care about the potential for silver (and gold) coins to be used as an alternative currency, or to be bartered with. From that perspective, having exclusively 1 oz coins seems a bit restrictive, so adding some smaller sizes makes sense. And fractional, modern bullion coins carry absurdly high premiums, so older coins are more attractive in that sense.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by goldsilverdash

[SidS]

14 hours ago, goldsilverdash said:

All valid points, though I don't think I'll ever become a collector myself.

How would you define "junk silver"?

Junk silver being generally those coins where there is no collector value (or numismatic premium). Condition wise it depends on the age and rarity of a coin. For example a 1964 silver US quarter in anything under UNC could be considered junk as there's so many of them. A Fair condition 1916 Standing Liberty quarter would be an extremely collectable coin, way, way beyond the melt value.

I'd say any coin that is either very worn (but not rare), damaged, holed, bent or mounted/ex-mount are junk silver.

[pricha]

I enjoy stacking British  pre 1920 silver as  opposed to collecting as in putting them in space consuming folders and boxes etc. I like the coins in fair condition and avoid lots sold as scrap. Individually prices have held well and I wouldn't want to sell everything at scrap weight of .925 which most dealers would offer I think. I would definitely sell each coin separately if needed . 

[goldsilverdash]

3 hours ago, SidS said:

Junk silver being generally those coins where there is no collector value (or numismatic premium). Condition wise it depends on the age and rarity of a coin. For example a 1964 silver US quarter in anything under UNC could be considered junk as there's so many of them. A Fair condition 1916 Standing Liberty quarter would be an extremely collectable coin, way, way beyond the melt value.

I'd say any coin that is either very worn (but not rare), damaged, holed, bent or mounted/ex-mount are junk silver.

Thank you! Personally, I wouldn't want to buy very worn or damaged coins, but I wouldn't mind common coins in half-decent condition with no collector value or numismatic premium.

[SidS]

46 minutes ago, pricha said:

I enjoy stacking British  pre 1920 silver as  opposed to collecting as in putting them in space consuming folders and boxes etc. I like the coins in fair condition and avoid lots sold as scrap. Individually prices have held well and I wouldn't want to sell everything at scrap weight of .925 which most dealers would offer I think. I would definitely sell each coin separately if needed . 

Exactly. I thought I was the only one stacking like this!

[goldsilverdash]

So the next question is , where do you buy older silver coins (as the bullion dealers don't have them)?

[SidS]

14 minutes ago, goldsilverdash said:

So the next question is , where do you buy older silver coins (as the bullion dealers don't have them)?

eBay for many, dealers for others.

When I say eBay, I don't tend to buy lots, I tend to cherry pick coins I want. I look for the scarcer ones. I look for coins where the dealer accept best offers, I tend to try and haggle them down to a reasonable price, sometime below, at or slightly above book value.

This is why it takes so long for me to accumulate silver - but I enjoy the coins I've got very much.

Sometimes it's cost averaging - pay over the odds for one, under price for the next few.

I also find dealers or sellers that I have dealt with, and have given me decent coins or decent discounts and stick with them.

Edited October 25, 2022 by SidS

[Jvc2858]

On 25/10/2022 at 10:11, SidS said:

eBay for many, dealers for others.

When I say eBay, I don't tend to buy lots, I tend to cherry pick coins I want. I look for the scarcer ones. I look for coins where the dealer accept best offers, I tend to try and haggle them down to a reasonable price, sometime below, at or slightly above book value.

This is why it takes so long for me to accumulate silver - but I enjoy the coins I've got very much.

Sometimes it's cost averaging - pay over the odds for one, under price for the next few.

I also find dealers or sellers that I have dealt with, and have given me decent coins or decent discounts and stick with them.

Could you tell me if there are any reputable dealers on ebay you would recommend? I have just started collecting some historical British sliver coins, Many thanks

[SidS]

13 hours ago, Jvc2858 said:

Could you tell me if there are any reputable dealers on ebay you would recommend? I have just started collecting some historical British sliver coins, Many thanks

If you give me a sense of the time period you're interested in, it'll help me get a rough area.

Hammered coins (pre-1662)

Early Milled (1662-1815)

Late Milled (1816-1967)

Decimal (1968-present)

[Magritte]

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

[SidS]

26 minutes ago, Magritte said:

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

BEAUTIFUL!

How many 1894s have you got there? It took me a while to find one of those at reasonable price!

About £34 10/- there in face. That's quite some haul.

Edited November 4, 2022 by SidS

[Jvc2858]

7 hours ago, SidS said:

If you give me a sense of the time period you're interested in, it'll help me get a rough area.

Hammered coins (pre-1662)

Early Milled (1662-1815)

Late Milled (1816-1967)

Decimal (1968-present)

 

Thanks, I've just started so I will concentrate on early and late milled sliver coins for now. So far I've got 3 Victorian crowns. :)

[Jvc2858]

My next target is a British trade dollar, I think it's a beautiful coin, I haven't managed to find a reasonable priced specimen yet.

 

[StackemHigh]

I don't stack historical silver coins. I have a few old I/2p 1p 2p shillings florins and only the double florins have any silver content. Not many but nice to have.

My silver stack is decimal era modern stuff a tube of these and a tube of those type of thing. 

Perth mint has good silver and gold collectable bullion stuff but Gold LMU coins are thing are great. Most of my gold stack is older sovs cheap and plentyful.

[Magritte]

16 hours ago, SidS said:

BEAUTIFUL!

How many 1894s have you got there? It took me a while to find one of those at reasonable price!

About £34 10/- there in face. That's quite some haul.

I’ve been collecting crowns for many years, I’ve actually only got one 1894 out of approx 300 crowns in my collection. I don’t seem to come across many on my travels.

 

[SidS]

3 hours ago, Magritte said:

I’ve been collecting crowns for many years, I’ve actually only got one 1894 out of approx 300 crowns in my collection. I don’t seem to come across many on my travels.

 

I think they're a sleeper, get 'em if you see them!

[pricha]

On 04/11/2022 at 15:29, Magritte said:

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

Made my day seeing that lot. Thanks

[RacerCool]

My view is that a coin should be at least 90% silver to be worth having, because they cost money, they are heavy, and they take up space.  So if I'm going to have it then it should be worth keeping.

My collection, if it hadn't been lost in that tragic event, would include mostly historical coins, which were minted by governments.  Not because I trust or am in love with gov't but because these coins are known and accepted.  For example, 1955-1960 Mexican 10 pesos crown-sized coins.  Those are beefy chunky silver coins!  For smaller coins, it's US pre-1965 silver dimes.  Because they're known coins they should be more practical and usable if silver coinage becomes currency again.

Same principle applies to gold stacking.

[Earthmetal]

I have a tin full of old coins from all over the world with silver content, from 92.5% right down to below 30%. It was really interesting sorting them all by country and purity. The tin is b****y heavy!
Tip; British Empire 'silver' coins mostly did NOT follow the 1946 debasement that we suffered, and have 50% or higher well into the 1950s and beyond in some cases.