Same Coin Different Photos - The Effect of Lighting in Macro Photography

[LawrenceChard]

Same Coin Different Photos - The Effect of Lighting in Macro Photography

I recently posted an outtake on a gold coin, but this shows good photos of an ASE American Silver Eagle, compared with much better photos of the same coin using different lighting technique:

2019 American Silver Eagle shot with "Softbox"

2019 American Silver Eagle shot with "Softbox"

Followed by

2019 American Silver Eagle shot with "Grid"

Teams chat:

I prefer grid. Which do you like?

If you prefer softbox then give the reverse a lick of dehaze just on the left (do you see how it's more blown on left?

(Camera raw and press "k" to enter adjustment brush and make sure only setting changed is dehaze).

But grid is much more eye catching IMHO

 

Some difference, heh?

😎

Edited July 22, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[Darr3nG]

Grid - shows more depth.

[James32]

Softbox 🙋‍♂️

[flyingveepixie]

Grid seems to show more definition and to my eye seems more appealing than softbox but I could understand some thinking it might look a bit artificially highlighted or enhanced.

[Darr3nG]

4 minutes ago, James32 said:

Softbox 🙋‍♂️

Booh! Down in front!

[James32]

Just now, Darr3nG said:

Booh! Down in front!

Think you completely missed the joke lol.

[Darr3nG]

2 minutes ago, James32 said:

Think you completely missed the joke lol.

Or did I?

[James32]

1 minute ago, Darr3nG said:

Or did I?

Categorically and definitively yes...

 

[jackflash123]

Wow the Grid mode makes those coins really pop.

Just from the perspectives of showcasing a coin in my opinion the Grid option is far better. The softbox images seem flat in comparison whereas the Grid images seem to show depth and detail.

A very interesting topic @LawrenceChard 

Have these images been taken with a digital camera? And is it possible to get the same or similar quality of images using a smartphone?

[Darr3nG]

Just now, jackflash123 said:

The softbox images seem flat in comparison

@James32 - who missed the joke, now???  

[James32]

1 minute ago, Darr3nG said:

@James32 - who missed the joke, now???  

Think we is on different stations tbh

[Darr3nG]

5 minutes ago, James32 said:

Think we is on different stations tbh

I'd normally blame the whiskey, but I'm all out... Drinking rum tonight!  

[jackflash123]

11 minutes ago, Darr3nG said:

@James32 - who missed the joke, now???  

My spidey senses are tingling 🕷

[James32]

Just now, jackflash123 said:

My spidey senses are tingling 🕷

That's probably just cramps 😃

[jackflash123]

5 minutes ago, James32 said:

That's probably just cramps 😃

Cramps, no there's definitely a tingle lol 😆 

[LawrenceChard]

29 minutes ago, jackflash123 said:

Wow the Grid mode makes those coins really pop.

Just from the perspectives of showcasing a coin in my opinion the Grid option is far better. The softbox images seem flat in comparison whereas the Grid images seem to show depth and detail.

A very interesting topic @LawrenceChard 

Have these images been taken with a digital camera? And is it possible to get the same or similar quality of images using a smartphone?

I agree, the Grid ones look fab!

Digital camera - yes Canon 5D.

And is it possible to get the same or similar quality of images using a smartphone? - no!

😎

[Booky586]

They are all excellent photos, but I think grid lighting works better than softbox on that coin, it has greater impact.

Comparing the 2 styles side by side you're getting more detail coming through using grid in areas of low relief (in green bubble), but at the inconvenience of loosing a little detail in the shadows (in red bubble).

Is it possible to retain the benefits of grid lighting but include the detail in the shadows of the softbox all in one photo?

[jackflash123]

15 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I agree, the Grid ones look fab!

Digital camera - yes Canon 5D.

And is it possible to get the same or similar quality of images using a smartphone? - no!

😎

Yes I didn't think a smartphone would be able to produce images like that, but it never harms to ask and be sure.

So I guess a Canon 5D should be on my Amazon wishlist.

Thanks for the info @LawrenceChard 👍 

[LawrenceChard]

51 minutes ago, Booky586 said:

They are all excellent photos, but I think grid lighting works better than softbox on that coin, it has greater impact.

Comparing the 2 styles side by side you're getting more detail coming through using grid in areas of low relief (in green bubble), but at the inconvenience of loosing a little detail in the shadows (in red bubble).

Is it possible to retain the benefits of grid lighting but include the detail in the shadows of the softbox all in one photo?

The honest answer to that is "I don't know".

I think it possibly is, but I would defer to the expert @SemolinaPilchard, a.k.a. Doug, who might like to contribute to the discussion.

 

2 minutes ago, jackflash123 said:

Yes I didn't think a smartphone would be able to produce images like that, but it never harms to ask and be sure.

So I guess a Canon 5D should be on my Amazon wishlist.

Thanks for the info @LawrenceChard 👍 

An R5 might be even better!

But I would try to avoid buying it from Amazon, and there is usually a better deal to be had elsewhere.

😎

Edited July 22, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[jackflash123]

2 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

The honest answer to that is "I don't know".

I think it possibly is, but I would defer to the expert @SemolinaPilchard, a.k.a. Doug, who might like to contribute to the discussion.

 

An R5 might be even better!

😎

Excellent I will check them out. I was thinking of getting a Nikon Coolpix P900 for myself for Christmas but I have a couple of different options to consider now.

Again thanks for the info 👍 

[SemolinaPilchard]

1 hour ago, Booky586 said:

They are all excellent photos, but I think grid lighting works better than softbox on that coin, it has greater impact.

Is it possible to retain the benefits of grid lighting but include the detail in the shadows of the softbox all in one photo?

Thanks Booky.

I'm training a new recruit in how we take coin photos and she did both methods.

Yes...I prefer barn doors with grid attachment - but sometimes, especially with polished silver, it introduces shadows (or more accurately light fall off) on the edges.  I do persevere with the grid though and usually find a way with it.  The softbox does lose detail sometimes - but sometimes it's the only way with highly polished coins or we'd get too much blowout.

Is it possible to splice you ask - yes of course it is but that's very time consuming and we have so much to do it's not really worth the benefits.   However.....I do have a solution ...I keep my beauty dish at the studio which does sometimes play ball and give a good in between.   From my portrait days in my studio it was my modifier of choice but takes an eternity to master properly....and I've found that it's the same with coins.....if using that most days I'll just revert to one of the other modifiers but just occasionally it works and that's a "oooohhh - thats nice - I'll look forward to editing this one!" moment.

Just in case you're interested I'll link to an article my pal did about the axial lighting setup we use.  It's been linked before and a little out of date (we now have under product lighting also so we can capture the serrations)  I'll bring it up to date when I have time (I know I said this before too :))

https://www.diyphotography.net/use-mirrors-get-perfect-axial-lighting-macro-subjects/

 

 

[SemolinaPilchard]

16 hours ago, jackflash123 said:

Have these images been taken with a digital camera? And is it possible to get the same or similar quality of images using a smartphone?

Well yes and no. (in regard to smartphone)

Our dslr camera is mounted on a copy stand so its perpendicular to the coin - you could do that with some contraption for a smartphone.

I use a shutter release cable on the dslr to minimise camera shake....I dare say that you could use a timer on the phone

The lighting wouldn't affect whatever you are taking the image with.

BUT...with dslr we have choice of lens - which smartphone doesn't. 

I've seen some breathtaking photos (landscapes etc) captured with a smartphone but I really wouldn't find it as easy to use as a purpose built dslr camera

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by SemolinaPilchard
additon

[LawrenceChard]

On 22/07/2022 at 13:59, jackflash123 said:

Excellent I will check them out. I was thinking of getting a Nikon Coolpix P900 for myself for Christmas but I have a couple of different options to consider now.

Again thanks for the info 👍 

Our first DSLR was a (Nikon compatible) Fuji, but the battery latch failed. We bought a consumer grade Nikon as a spare while it was repaired, only to find the Nikon was not compatible with the Nikon ring flash.

Turned out Canon were the only DSLR maker with a fully compatible macro system at the time.

We binned the Fuji and Nikon, and replaced  everything with Canon kit.

😎

Edited July 27, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[jackflash123]

11 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Well yes and no. (in regard to smartphone)

Our dslr camera is mounted on a copy stand so its perpendicular to the coin - you could do that with some contraption for a smartphone.

I use a shutter release cable on the dslr to minimise camera shake....I dare say that you could use a timer on the phone

The lighting wouldn't affect whatever you are taking the image with.

BUT...with dslr we have choice of lens - which smartphone doesn't. 

I've seen some breathtaking photos (landscapes etc) captured with a smartphone but I really wouldn't find it as easy to use as a purpose built dslr camera

 

 

Thanks @SemolinaPilchard handy to know these things.

I don't sell a lot of coins/bars, I mainly buy them, but I do post a few items for sale here and there so it's handy to know.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post 👍

[LawrenceChard]

18 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Thanks Booky.

I'm training a new recruit in how we take coin photos and she did both methods.

Yes...I prefer barn doors with grid attachment - but sometimes, especially with polished silver, it introduces shadows (or more accurately light fall off) on the edges.  I do persevere with the grid though and usually find a way with it.  The softbox does lose detail sometimes - but sometimes it's the only way with highly polished coins or we'd get too much blowout.

Is it possible to splice you ask - yes of course it is but that's very time consuming and we have so much to do it's not really worth the benefits.   However.....I do have a solution ...I keep my beauty dish at the studio which does sometimes play ball and give a good in between.   From my portrait days in my studio it was my modifier of choice but takes an eternity to master properly....and I've found that it's the same with coins.....if using that most days I'll just revert to one of the other modifiers but just occasionally it works and that's a "oooohhh - thats nice - I'll look forward to editing this one!" moment.

Just in case you're interested I'll link to an article my pal did about the axial lighting setup we use.  It's been linked before and a little out of date (we now have under product lighting also so we can capture the serrations)  I'll bring it up to date when I have time (I know I said this before too :))

https://www.diyphotography.net/use-mirrors-get-perfect-axial-lighting-macro-subjects/

 

 

10 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Well yes and no. (in regard to smartphone)

Our dslr camera is mounted on a copy stand so its perpendicular to the coin - you could do that with some contraption for a smartphone.

I use a shutter release cable on the dslr to minimise camera shake....I dare say that you could use a timer on the phone

The lighting wouldn't affect whatever you are taking the image with.

BUT...with dslr we have choice of lens - which smartphone doesn't. 

I've seen some breathtaking photos (landscapes etc) captured with a smartphone but I really wouldn't find it as easy to use as a purpose built dslr camera

 

Thanks for posting all this.

We should add a How to Photograph Coins info / blog / guide page to the Chards website.

It would help numismatists worldwide, and might encourage some of our less ethical competitors to take their own photos instead of using our high quality copyright ones.

I hope The Sun and the Daily Telegraph legal teams are reading this. GoldCore already know, although they were very slow learners!

😎