VAT on Silver in the UK

[DrakeSavory]

2 hours ago, cinereus said:

Why? It's only £15k. Your car's probably worth more (if marginally harder to steal). And 40kg is a real pain to carry on flights before you even consider the environmental cost.

Do you have to declare how much you are traveling with when in the UK?  In the US we do if the value of your cash, metals, etc. is $10,000 or more so you have to advertise to the authorities that you are ripe for having your PMs seized (stolen under civil asset forfeiture).

[BackyardBullion]

34 minutes ago, cinereus said:

€10,000 but afaik only applies to cash and it won't be forfeited. 

EU countries are exempt so no issue with Estonia. 

We don't have nearly as many issues travelling with cash as you do intra US. 

This is not financial advice, but I am pretty sure you have to declare cash or cash equivalent items like silver and gold.

[BackyardBullion]

3 minutes ago, cinereus said:

I thought that was the case too but couldn't find anything saying you had to use anything other than face value.

Either way, it's definitely not relevant bringing any amount back from the EU.

There are a lot of interesting "theories" on face value and gold content. Personally I don't ever want an awkward conversation about declarations where they have the ability to fine or confiscate my gold/silver on the basis of a technicality. Especially when there wouldn't be any taxes due on it!

[Chorlton]

9 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

There are a lot of interesting "theories" on face value and gold content. Personally I don't ever want an awkward conversation about declarations where they have the ability to fine or confiscate my gold/silver on the basis of a technicality. Especially when there wouldn't be any taxes due on it!

That would be exactly my approach as well. Most customs people are stunned if you declare something and ask them to have a look.

Rather than the, oh that 40kg of gold I forgot all about it !

[BackyardBullion]

@Chorlton totally - just not worth worrying about.

I have travelled both internationally and within the UK by air carrying a large amount of silver. It really isn't that bad. Going through airport security was fun and when I asked for a private room to open up my bags for them they looked a little sheepish. But when in the room they were really interested (in a non intrusive and threatening way) most people in this world haven't seen much precious metal (especially in bulk) up close. On my way back from Edinburgh the lady I spoke to told an amazing story about a middle Eastern man travelling to Dubai with a suitcase that had 10x 1kg bars of gold in it! No issues letting it through. The security at Gatwick even asked me if I wanted an escort to the gate - but that would draw too much attention me thinks!

@SilverPirate007 if you haven't seen this video yet I went to Estonia to pick up some silver!

For us, this was under £10,000 worth so no issues with declarations but I did make sure I had all my invoices printed and accessible in case someone stopped me at either airport.

 

 

[SilverPirate007]

8 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

@Chorlton totally - just not worth worrying about.

I have travelled both internationally and within the UK by air carrying a large amount of silver. It really isn't that bad. Going through airport security was fun and when I asked for a private room to open up my bags for them they looked a little sheepish. But when in the room they were really interested (in a non intrusive and threatening way) most people in this world haven't seen much precious metal (especially in bulk) up close. On my way back from Edinburgh the lady I spoke to told an amazing story about a middle Eastern man travelling to Dubai with a suitcase that had 10x 1kg bars of gold in it! No issues letting it through. The security at Gatwick even asked me if I wanted an escort to the gate - but that would draw too much attention me thinks!

@SilverPirate007 if you haven't seen this video yet I went to Estonia to pick up some silver!

For us, this was under £10,000 worth so no issues with declarations but I did make sure I had all my invoices printed and accessible in case someone stopped me at either airport.

 

 

Thank you sir, I really enjoy your videos and love your work. I would love to buy a kg bar from you when you are back up and running!

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, SilverPirate007 said:

Thank you sir, I really enjoy your videos and love your work. I would love to buy a kg bar from you when you are back up and running!

Sounds good - we have a pair of KG bars hallmarked and ready to be claimed if you wanted either of them feel free to PM me! 😉😉

[SilverPirate007]

2 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Sounds good - we have a pair of KG bars hallmarked and ready to be claimed if you wanted either of them feel free to PM me! 😉😉

Beautiful! I’m going to need to wait until payday I think!

[Troy77]

3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Sounds good - we have a pair of KG bars hallmarked and ready to be claimed if you wanted either of them feel free to PM me! 😉😉

Nice how much are they? Need to get my EU mint order in and sell some fast😁

[BackyardBullion]

7 minutes ago, Troy77 said:

Nice how much are they? Need to get my EU mint order in and sell some fast😁

Will drop you a PM as the thread is getting off topic.

[sixgun]

3 hours ago, DrakeSavory said:

Do you have to declare how much you are traveling with when in the UK?  In the US we do if the value of your cash, metals, etc. is $10,000 or more so you have to advertise to the authorities that you are ripe for having your PMs seized (stolen under civil asset forfeiture).

i have never heard of any such slave rule in the UK. There are also interstate rules in the united states of America but that sort of thing doesn't apply in the UK even when travelling between its various countries and principalities. There is probably an issue with insurance. If you are not insured to carry that much treasure then you won't be insured. 

[sixgun]

To fill in a few gaps - but this is not tax advice - do your own research
Capital Gains Tax can be offset by indexation - so if you had £10 000 of silver which you sold 5 years later for £12 000 and inflation was 2% per year over those 5 years, then inflation cumulatively was sufficient to inflate the value of your silver to £11 040.80. So you did not make a £2 000 profit but (£2 000 - £1 040.80) = £959.20. You will also have had shipping costs when you bought and perhaps sold, you will also have had insurance costs if the silver were added to your home policy. Then there might have been transport costs and perhaps storage costs and so on. Before you know it you could have whittled that gain down to a much smaller number. You might even have made a loss.

Germany i know is not low VAT on silver. It is 18% but the import VAT charged by German customs is something like 8% - it is a throw back to an earlier time. So dealers import silver coins from outside the EU and pay the 8% VAT at the border. They do not reclaim that VAT and then they sell their silver coins second hand under the marginal relief scheme. There is no extra VAT to pay as it has already been paid when the coins were imported.

The £1000 tax free sales is a relatively new scheme the government introduced. It is so people can sell bits and pieces on ebay etc and as long as their TURNOVER is less than £1000 a year they don't declare it. It isn't much with precious metals but that is the scheme - i use this for little items i sell and somehow as if by magic i never go over the £1000. You could rotated the venture between family members and keep the same ebay account by changing the name and papypal account attached to the ebay account account as you get to the £1000 threshold. Some people have done that. 

As BYB points out use the CGT allowance of family members - as long as you can trust them you can collect together quite a lot of CGT allowance. Most people aren't claiming theirs. Spread sales across years. You could buy silver for £X and sell for £X + CGT allowance + indexation + expense to close family member Billie. Then the next year which might be the next day you could buy it back for the price you paid. That way you keep using your CGT allowance. It could just be a paper exercise but we are dealing with a legal fiction world anyway. You keep your sales under the VAT threshold and Bob's your uncle who you could use in the scheme as well i suppose.

For most people CGT is not something you should be paying. Think ahead, stay ahead and keep your head down.

[NumisNewbie]

What annoys me, particularly when it comes to Silver Brits is that although they are CGT free we are required to pay VAT on a legal tender coin! Ridiculous. Yes you can buy from Silver To Go or other non UK sellers and not pay the tax or have it reduced but why should we have to duck & dive? Total mickey take (I could use stronger language) by HMRC imo. In effect we are paying a tax on money.

Rant over...

[HerculeHolmes]

On 20/04/2020 at 19:42, Silvs said:

That's fantastic info. What happens once we have left the EU? Do different VAT rules apply. If I buy silver from Estonia and get it shipped to UK, do I have to pay VAT then? 

Yes it was for storage - it just seemed a bit too good to be true that I could aviid VAT entirely at either selling or buying provided I avoided the UK. For example, would I have to pay taxes in ROI? 

I don't know how I missed this thread, I asked almost the exact same question myself. I'm very pleased to find that I can buy silver at low rates of VAT or no VAT from Europe, but I'm also now wondering about the pros and cons of pre-owned silver versus new. It seems to be an awful lot cheaper.

Edited April 24, 2020 by HerculeHolmes

[Bratnia]

On 21/04/2020 at 19:59, sixgun said:

You could buy silver for £X and sell for £X + CGT allowance + indexation + expense

@sixgun You mentioned indexation in another recent post, is that actually the case as I was under the impression that indexation was a thing of the past?

[sixgun]

8 minutes ago, Bratnia said:

@sixgun You mentioned indexation in another recent post, is that actually the case as I was under the impression that indexation was a thing of the past?

As best i can see HMRC phased out indexation - so you were correct in what you wrote in the previous thread.

The thing is, if you arrange yourself strategically and make yourself a collector, CGT is not an issue. Obviously if you bought a significant number of gold bars and had them vaulted and then sold them off you could find yourself facing potential CGT. This isn't an arrangment to make yourself a collector. 

We should return to the general advice given on the forum - buy gold sovereigns. Any thing that is not UK coinage make sure it is not going to breach the £6k chattels threshold. Appear as a collector not an investor/trader. i think most of the members on this forum are collectors - they buy and sell bits to rearrange their collections.

[JohnA1]

3 year old thread, but relevant and fresh as ever, especially with CGT limits being reduced aggressively now

 

My view is that nothing good can come from volunteering information to 'authorities' thinking that "I've got nothing to hide"

They are greedy corporations intent on grabbing, confiscating and extorting (for the common good of course!)

The less they know about one's circumstances, the better. They make up 'rules' as they go, expecting the serfs to declare and share their 'profits'. Let's ignore the excessive inflation they've created and pretend is not there and refuse to even apply the fake CPI if it doesn't suit them.

 

Volunteering information implies decency, fairness and good faith.

[WulfrunCoins]

On 26/06/2023 at 10:58, JohnA1 said:

They are greedy corporations intent on grabbing, confiscating and extorting (for the common good of course!)

"You'll own nothing and be happy"
Danish Politician Ida Auken in a 2016 essay for the World Economic Forum (WEF)

[HillWalkerDundee]

Although I would not use a vault, should a person want to claim their physical silver then they would be charged VAT but at what rate? Would it be the original cost, the current value, spot?

[MBTPSilver]

10 hours ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

Although I would not use a vault, should a person want to claim their physical silver then they would be charged VAT but at what rate? Would it be the original cost, the current value, spot?

It's normally the current value of the silver, though I'm unsure if that means the spot value, or what it would currently cost to buy the product with premium. I believe the latter.