Milkspotting and tarnishing on Proof coins

[ChrisSilver]

For those of you that collect proofs (motorbikz can probably answer this are you not worried about milkspotting on your proofs? Or generally you believe that the production / cleaning process on proofs is of a better standard and milkspotting is extremely rare or impossible?

Milkspotting issues on RCM bullion products completely put me off collecting anything from this mint, even though they make some of the nicest looking coins IMO. And I would hate this to happen to proof coins, at least with bullion whatever happens to the coin the initial margin over spot was much lower.

 

Tarnishing would also annoy me. I would probably prefer a collection of a few gold coins, (even though I prefer the aesthetics of silver) than a wide variety of silver proofs just because of worries of milkspoting / tarnishing.

 

 

[Danny-boy]

I have quite a few proofs now, mainly Perth Mint and RAM.

Some are fairly old, but none have spots to my knowledge and I had them all out not so long ago.

I'm sure it's a possible issue, but a lot less common on the proofs.

Tarnish does happen, but it's less of a resale issue than spots. Not wanted though, all the same.

[HawkHybrid]

uniqueness adds character to items we own.

I don't see tarnishing the same way as milk spots.

it's a bit like the silver aging gracefully 

 

HH

[ArthGoch]

On the RCM proofs, i have been collecting the $1 Silver Proof Canadian Commemorative coins and which has to be the longest running coin series that there has been.

 

The Commemorative Series  started in 1971 with at least one coin a year; and in many case two or three being released. As we stand there has been nearly 75 coins released in the series. Over the years they have altered the silver fineness of the coin from as low as 0.500 up to the current 0.999. Amongst other things the coins have been provided in PVC wallets, clamshells, fabric lined boxes, and plastic stand up displays. Similarly i have bought a lot of these on the second hand market as well as direct from dealers and the mint itself 

 

Even with varying packaging, fineness, provenance etc the one constant of these proof coins is that none have milk spotted  However a number of the years saw the coins produced in both BU and Proof versions, and in some cases I do have BU coins and some of which show minor spotting.  

 

I read the press release from the Perth Mint who were exploring the possibility of airborne organic substance as being a contributory factor for the commencement of milk spots. However, and as far as I am aware the RCM produce the $1 Commemorative in P and BU versions side by side, Thus from my passive observation of my own coins  and a time span  of nearly 45 years I would conclude that there has to be more to this than simply an airborne substance.  

[motorbikez]

I am not worried about milk spotting or tarnishing on my proofs.I have no RCM proofs at all, there is nothing that interests me but if i liked an RCM proof I'd buy it,their reputation re Bu's does them no favours but like AG i have not seen any complaints about RCM proofs.What I have noticed over the near 3 years i've been collecting no RAM proofs i have, or have seen suffer from any defects at all.Also I have seen no .925 proofs with milk spots or toning.

[HighlandTiger]

I've seen a lot of 1977 Silver Jubilee .925 silver proof  crowns with toning. I even have a few. 

[motorbikez]

Well you learn something every day.

[Shamatti]

If you look at the work Perth Mint has done on milkspotting, it is still possible to have a proof coin which develops a milk spot if the contamination was on the planchet before striking. Once it is embedded on the surface of the coin, polishing is unlikely to remove it. It does seem very rare though, which makes me think they have separate more well maintained and cleaner environments for producing their proof coins.

[MickB]

Could be something in the cleaning solution they use that's different at other mints. Just noticed one of my bird series coins with a load of milk spots. Wasn't there when I bought it a few months ago. It was stored in a cheap plastic wallet, so it could be the residue on the coin reacts with the plastic as well as it not being air tight.

[ChrisSilver]

Could be something in the cleaning solution they use that's different at other mints. Just noticed one of my bird series coins with a load of milk spots. Wasn't there when I bought it a few months ago. It was stored in a cheap plastic wallet, so it could be the residue on the coin reacts with the plastic as well as it not being air tight.

Milk spotting is generally caused by the residue of cleaning agent being baked into the coin. This then oxidises at some point to reveal 'milk spots' but doesn't necessarily happen straight away. RCM bullion coins seem to be the worst offender in terms of milks potting.

And this is what makes me wary about buying high (compared to bullion) premium proofs. Though I do believe that the mints take more care when producing proofs to avoid milk spots.

[Pete]

I have some RCM proofs in boxed sets that are inside mint sealed caps.

The caps are actually glued so gaining access to the coins require destructive opening techniques.

A few coins have spots on them and they have never been opened since the day they were born.

[MCJ]

Hi All,
 
Just seen this, IMO, wonderful looking coin.
It's a 1935 King George V Silver Proof Rocking Horse Crown which has been graded, PF65 CAM, by NGC.

 

Is this tarnishing/toning natural? If it isn't, does anyone know how it's done? Because it looks so much nicer than the other one I've shown, which is UNC:

 

Two coins, same year, one looks better than the other, the toned coin is £1000 and the other is £25. Ok, One is proof and the other isn't, but that toning is surely demanding a premium?

 

 

[watchesandwhisky]

The toning is indeed beautiful, and natural, but it will not look this way in the hand..im pretty sure thats a scan,and scans make all the colours show vastly more than in person.

[HawkHybrid]

the pf65 should be a higher grade than the unc,

which will already give it a bigger premium.

 

toning can be both natural and artificially made.

whilst I don't know enough to tell between them,

the toning looks too systematically correct.

I'm of the opinion that natural toning is a random

thing that affects the coin randomly. having a

naturally toned coin that is toned in just the right

places should then be quite rare.

 

HH

[MCJ]

A scan, I didn't know they effected the colours, good to know though.

 

Ok, so the scan has made the toning look more striking, but one of the coins is toned, which we both agree looks cool, and the other....well? not so good.

 

So if both coins were bought in 1935 and one was stored, by the standard's of the day, properly, and the other left out in the open to fend for itself, by today's standards, neglected!, The neglected coin now looks better than the coin that was cared for. Kind of mixed up today, as we mother our coins to preserve their lustre?

[MCJ]

HH,

 

So you think the toning may not be natural? I have no frame of reference so have no idea.

[HawkHybrid]

So if both coins were bought in 1935 and one was stored, by the standard's of the day, properly, and the other left out in the open to fend for itself, by today's standards, neglected!, The neglected coin now looks better than the coin that was cared for. Kind of mixed up today, as we mother our coins to preserve their lustre?

 

I'd like to see any of my coins left to fend for itself

grade at pf65.

 

HH

[MCJ]

I wouldn't let a PF65 graded coin fend for itself either, but then neither of us, assuming the toning is natural, would end up with a nice toned coin.

[watchesandwhisky]

Here is a topic I made some time ago about how different scanned coins can look in the hand.

 

https://thesilverforum.com/topic/1836-i-think-i-will-be-returning-these/

[sovereignsteve]

This kind of "rainbow" toning is indeed natural and highly prized in old silver coins. You tend to see it more in US dollars than Uk coins although the '35 crown does seem prone to it, I've seen a few.

The main reson for the difference in price is the fact that one's a proof with a mintage of 2,500 as against the bullion coin at over 700,000. The bullion coin is in a lower grade also.

I've not seen a proof crown go like that and I'm not really sure if it's actually desirable in a proof or how it would affect the price.

[HawkHybrid]

http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/toning.html

 

HH

[MCJ]

Here is a topic I made some time ago about how different scanned coins can look in the hand.

 

https://thesilverforum.com/topic/1836-i-think-i-will-be-returning-these/

Thanks for the link, very enlightening - pleased the deal worked out ok for you as well.

 

This kind of "rainbow" toning is indeed natural and highly prized in old silver coins. You tend to see it more in US dollars than Uk coins although the '35 crown does seem prone to it, I've seen a few.

The main reson for the difference in price is the fact that one's a proof with a mintage of 2,500 as against the bullion coin at over 700,000. The bullion coin is in a lower grade also.

I've not seen a proof crown go like that and I'm not really sure if it's actually desirable in a proof or how it would affect the price.

Cheers Steve, yeah I released the price for the proof was high due it being a proof, but assumed that the toning was adding to it's value. I think it looks great, if it actually does look that way in the hand.

 

http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/toning.html

 

HH

 

Thanks for the link HH,

 I'm loving this forum, so many knowledgeable people willing to help out.

 

So far this week I've been made aware of scanning coins, toning, and have been recommended 2 books (which I have ordered) to read.

 

Thanks everyone

 

[HelpingHands]

You can rainbow tone coins with an egg I think.  There was somebody doing it on a forum that doesn't exist anymore so I can't find the link.

 

It may be googleable.

[MCJ]

Just had a quick Google. You're right, eggs are mentioned quite a lot, loads of info but mainly on other forums so haven't put up the links.

[motorbikez]

@MCJ It's OK mate put the links up if you want.