bullion coins Bullion quality standards

[campbellgs]

Hi,

Wanted to get people's opinions on what is an acceptable condition/standard for a bullion coin?

Was recently offered a coin, which after looking very closely at the pictures (taken from a bit of a distance) I noticed it had a distinct scratch on it and also had pit marks, the seller was asking for a high premium over spot (£335 for 1/4oz) on the coin and when I mentioned the condition, I got a sarcastic patronizing response about how it was bullion and that the condition is that of a bullion coin. 

Don't know what others think but for me that's unacceptable...or am I being persnickety?

Cheers

[Zhorro]

32 minutes ago, campbellgs said:

Hi,

Wanted to get people's opinions on what is an acceptable condition/standard for a bullion coin?

Was recently offered a coin, which after looking very closely at the pictures (taken from a bit of a distance) I noticed it had a distinct scratch on it and also had pit marks, the seller was asking for a high premium over spot (£335 for 1/4oz) on the coin and when I mentioned the condition, I got a sarcastic patronizing response about how it was bullion and that the condition is that of a bullion coin. 

Don't know what others think but for me that's unacceptable...or am I being persnickety?

Cheers

If it was only a bullion coin, maybe you should have asked them why they were wanting such a high premium over the spot price!

[campbellgs]

6 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

If it was only a bullion coin, maybe you should have asked them why they were wanting such a high premium over the spot price!

The coin is quite scarce. 

What are your thoughts on condition though? Acceptable to have a scratch and pit marks on it?

[sovereignsteve]

Depends entirely what coin it was, how old and what the collector base is.

just because a coin is rare doesn't justify a high premium If it's not actively collected.

there are many sovereigns that I'd pay very high premiums for in "bullion" condition.

[universalcurrency]

I was in a similar position having bought a 1oz queens beast 2nd market (used) from a well known commercial dealer.  the coin was perhaps £100 cheaper than this particular coin would normally sell for.  When I received the coin it had heavy dings and fingerprints all over it.  It was still £200 over spot and was sold as bullion however I sent it back as this was a premium collectors coin.  I got my money refunded and would suggest you do the same.

In such matters stick to the facts, tell the dealer that this item was purchased as a premium collectors coin (hence the markup over spot) and the goods shipped were damaged hence the value to you is only worth spot plus say 4-6%.  You could also mention that no buyer would give you the collector value in this condition.  Don't get angry or go on a rant as this will likely get you no where.

If the seller is still stalling you could mention that you will take it up with your payment provider eg paypal, credit card or bank.

Most sellers don't like to harm their reputation so will most likely refund you.

Best of luck.

 

[Draconicus]

IMHO you are correct! Saying something is to be selling as Bullion just to justify it's horrific condition it's not a very honest attitude for me!

I have seen here in the forum times to times some ppl trying to sell  Silver bars as  Bullion that looked like it came from the WW II and used as a soccer ball by some kids after that!...lol. 

Even at spot price I never buy them! Ppl need to learn Silver need to be handled with care!

In my country we have a say: Eyes eat first, mouth eats for second! (I hope this makes any sense in English).

[h103efa]

20 minutes ago, Draconicus said:

In my country we have a say: Eyes eat first, mouth eats for second! (I hope this makes any sense in English).

Haha, i know this pain ,when going grocery shopping on an empty stomach!

[Tn21]

I personally would buy gold with marks,scratches, pits, dings etc at the right price. Paying for the content of gold as well a bit on top is acceptable for my liking. 

I stay away from proofs I don't know the market well enough. As a guy who is mainly focussed on weight I will happily take gold silver with flaws at the right price. 

Price is key for me, bought some awesome bullion items via the forum and at good decent prices. The silver forum has been my go to place for picking up PM's. 

[Tn21]

Not sure what others think but based on the info at the start of the thread a more reasonable price should be in the region of £280-£310.

[richatthecroft]

2 hours ago, campbellgs said:

Hi,

Wanted to get people's opinions on what is an acceptable condition/standard for a bullion coin?

 

Great talking point.  But I guess what you really want to talk about- and want to seek out opinion of,  is the initial asking price of the 2018 Gold Standard 1/4oz coin?

2 hours ago, campbellgs said:

Was recently offered a coin, which after looking very closely at the pictures (taken from a bit of a distance) I noticed it had a distinct scratch on it and also had pit marks, the seller was asking for a high premium over spot (£335 for 1/4oz) on the coin and when I mentioned the condition, I got a sarcastic patronizing response about how it was bullion and that the condition is that of a bullion coin. 

Don't know what others think but for me that's unacceptable...or am I being persnickety?

Cheers

Sorry that you felt patronised by me.  

I'll post the PM we had in its entirety shortly, then people can get the heads up if they want to do any negotiating with me.  I wouldn't want to offend anyone else-  I would say I was mildly irritated in my responses to you, but that's subjective.  

Anyway,  given my 100% feedback in terms of sales and a couple of years worth of positive interactions with others on here, then I think its fair that people should see how I conduct myself in a Private Message- particularly when I initially responded to you in your 'wanted' thread, it would be quite easy for people to make an educated guess as to who you are referring to here.  

1 hour ago, campbellgs said:

The coin is quite scarce. 

Not sure its that scarce, but currently there's none to buy anywhere- its a nice coin that I guess people want to hold.  

 

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, Draconicus said:

IMHO you are correct! Saying something is to be selling as Bullion just to justify it's horrific condition it's not a very honest attitude for me!

 I have seen here in the forum times to times some ppl trying to sell  Silver bars as  Bullion that looked like it came from the WW II and used as a soccer ball by some kids after that!...lol. 

Horrific condition- you made this statement without seeing the photos above which I made available to @campbellgs prior to price negotiation.  I still think its of a good standard of bullion coin.

 He queried if it was scratched- I confirmed that it did have a scratch and moreover, I pointed out further defects- consummate with a bullion coin.  

Unlike me, my son isn't the best football player and has never used this coin as a football.  I do think however, he will turn out to be a much better businessman than I

1 hour ago, universalcurrency said:

I was in a similar position having bought a 1oz queens beast 2nd market (used) from a well known commercial dealer.  the coin was perhaps £100 cheaper than this particular coin would normally sell for.  When I received the coin it had heavy dings and fingerprints all over it.  It was still £200 over spot and was sold as bullion however I sent it back as this was a premium collectors coin.  I got my money refunded and would suggest you do the same.

He wasn't in this unfortunate position- he didn't buy the coin

[Draconicus]

13 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Horrific condition- you made this statement without seeing the photos above which I made available to @campbellgs prior to price negotiation.  I still think its of a good standard of bullion coin.

 He queried if it was scratched- I confirmed that it did have a scratch and moreover, I pointed out further defects- consummate with a bullion coin.  

Unlike me, my son isn't the best football player and has never used this coin as a football.  I do think however, he will turn out to be a much better businessman than I

He wasn't in this unfortunate position- he didn't buy the coin

My friend, Obviously I was not referring to your coin exactly neither it was related to the coin you specify, exactly because I never see it before!!

And you also talk about Bullion condition in a generic way, I give you my opinion about it!!

I was obviously talking in a generic way  and using irony!! As some times some ppl show up here trying to sell Silver as Bullion that really look like it came from a WW and used as a soccer ball after that!! in a Plain and simple Horrific condition!

[Tn21]

I still can't see the scratch. I like the gold standard coin never got my hands on it was too late to the party. 

If I'm being honest I would consider paying between £300-£310 for it without hesitation. 

I had bought a qb lion of eBay guy said no scratches or marks it arrived with a bit of a scratch/mark. I'm not really going to complain I paid £300 for it. I just left positive feedback and kept the lion.

Here is the pic 

[richatthecroft]

To put this PM below into further context, if it doesn't shine through- and notwithstanding a typo in the first screenshot- 'blog' should read belongs.  I actually bought the coin from @kneehow2018 and when I opened the parcel my son took a look, liked it and he bought it from me for the same price I paid.  

 

 

 

[campbellgs]

@richatthecroft

I have contributed to your trade positive feedback in the past.

My goal with this thread was to find out people's opinions on what is acceptable for a bullion coin, as this was your response once I had noticed a scratch and some pit marks on the coin.

I did not name you nor did I intend to, so clearly my intention was not to disrupt your trading reputation on the forum. Feel free to post our conversation. You took instance offence to me asking about the scratch that I noticed, and your response IMO was patronizing. I'm not prepared to get into handbags at dawn stuff here. 

Still interested to find out what people's opinions are about bullion condition and if I'm overreacting or not?

 

[Tn21]

£315 posted is a very reasonable offer, I will have some of that.

[PansPurse]

Frankly, bullion means thatt you're trading it mostly for its precious metal value, with perhaps a mark-up of a few percent. Beyond that you're then into numismatic territory, in which case condition is absolutely an important factor. That's not to say a scratched numismatic coin can't command a premium, just that it's a much more complicated game then.

[richatthecroft]

5 minutes ago, Draconicus said:

My friend, Obviously I was not referring to your coin exactly neither it was related to the coin you specify, exactly because I never see it before!!

And you also talk about Bullion condition in a generic way, I give you my opinion about it!!

I was obviously talking in a generic way  and using irony!! As some times some ppl show up here trying to sell Silver as Bullion that really look like it came from a WW and used as a soccer ball after that!! in a Plain and simple Horrific condition!

Thank you- you make my point here exactly- when someone posts something here implying a 'wrong doing' which is out of context then it can be very damaging.  It wouldn't have been very difficult for anyone who might have seen my response to @campbellgs 'wanted' post, to make a guess that it was me he was referring to.  

@Draconicus I know full well that you were not referring to my coin exactly- like you said, you never saw it before however, anyone reading this thread might jump to a conclusion that I was selling a coin  that was extremely damaged.  

[richatthecroft]

14 minutes ago, Tn21 said:

I still can't see the scratch. I like the gold standard coin never got my hands on it was too late to the party. 

I think pictures 1,2 & 3 exemplify the scratch- if you expand them it is apparent.  

[Roy]

Ah yes, this clown.

Queen's Beast Lion only worth its weight?

The pictures were plentiful and clear.

Seems like a serial chancer/timewaster.

 

 

[richatthecroft]

11 minutes ago, Tn21 said:

£315 posted is a very reasonable offer, I will have some of that.

Ha! 

Its yours if you would like it!  

PM me if you would like it, I'm going into town at 4pm to the dentist so can post today for delivery tomorrow.  

[campbellgs]

1 minute ago, Roy said:

Ah yes, this clown.

Queen's Beast Lion only worth its weight?

The pictures were plentiful and clear.

 

 

This is why I've started this thread, to see if I'm being far too persnickety. Don't appreciate being called a clown right enough. Feel like I'm always respectful in my messages.

[Tn21]

Happy days sending you pm now

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Added 0 minutes later...

1 minute ago, richatthecroft said:

Ha! 

Its yours if you would like it!  

PM me if you would like it, I'm going into town at 4pm to the dentist so can post today for delivery tomorrow.  

 

Just now, Tn21 said:

Happy days sending you pm now

 

[kimchi]

1 hour ago, Draconicus said:

In my country we have a say: Eyes eat first, mouth eats for second! (I hope this makes any sense in English).

In my country we eat them both at the same time and call them Tesco's Finest Sausages

[Sovereign]

in my opinion 

described as a bullion means expect some light marking on the coin 

the 1/4oz i see in a fair bullion condition also fair price too with the spot price been so high