Sovereigns. Time to get some gold

[HighlandTiger]

What do pawnbrokers generally do test wise to see if something is real gold?

[Kman]

I should mention I'm quite chuffed at spotting my first fake sovereign   all though I was tossed a soft ball with it being a coin that doesn't exist lol

[Pete]

Raises an interesting point -

 

If you walk into a pawnbroker with a piece of cut glass and state it is a diamond worth £3000 and receive £1000 cash, you are committing fraud.

If however you are not sure the stone is a diamond and the pawnbroker says it is then the error lies with the pawnbroker.

Therefore with a coin that looks gold is it 100% the responsibility of the buyer to check ?

I suppose a lot depends on the seller's description and history perhaps - if any ?

[Paul]

Caveat emptor  - BUYER BEWARE

Caveat venditor - SELLER BEWARE

 

Arguments on both sides. I am honest in the fact i am always 100% BOTH of the above weather i would be a seller or buyer.  

 

Why can CASHMYGOLD.inc (et. al.) on the High Street  offer to pay 50% of spot for it ?  is that not fraudulent when HGM will always pay 98% of spot?

 

It takes both parties to be happy with the deal/pledge/loan/sale

 

Ultimately it takes two to party, in any transaction.  

 

Both sides need to be happy with the transaction for it to happen.

 

 

They seem to get a bad rap but pawnbroking is a kind of ish honest form of lending as your know everything your getting or signing up for 

 

 

Pawnbrokers or moneylenders have attracted bad publicity.

 

Jesus booted them out of the temple, the Church imposed usury laws to stop the charging of interest on loans, and even Shakespeare had a dig at them, with Polonius telling his son "neither a borrower nor a lender be".

 

However, in times of need, pawnbrokers have come into their own, used by asset-rich BUT poor alike.

 

They can even claim to have been instrumental in the discovery of America: in the 15th century, Queen Isabella of Spain pawned the crown jewels to finance an exploratory voyage by Christopher Columbus.

[redrug]

just looked and they have ended it

 

Ended: 27 Jan, 2015 17:11:53 GMT

 

So they have been pretty swift taking it off

It does look very very dodgy - i would expect chocolate in the middle as it looks like the wrapper is coming off

 

 

 

Hey, don't knock that chocolate gold, my tuppence tasted great   

[Kman]

Hmm all the HGM shield sovereigns are gone, they had 9 up this morning, wonder if someone bough them all or.

[Carpe Diem]

Hmm all the HGM shield sovereigns are gone, they had 9 up this morning, wonder if someone bough them all or.

 

keef

[Murph]

Who just got the young head sydney mint shield sov from ebay for £235 plus £7 postage?

it was sitting at 220 so i bid 225 only to be auto outbid to 230.  I only had seconds left so I put in 235 only to find someone had entered it just before me.  I didnt have time to put in another bid anyway.

[sovereignsteve]

Hmm all the HGM shield sovereigns are gone, they had 9 up this morning, wonder if someone bough them all or.

I bought 4 the day before.

[Kman]

I bought 4 the day before.

 

I ended up buying 7 total but have sent 4 back as they were a bit too beat up 

 

How were the ones you got? 

[sovereignsteve]

can't remember exactly and not at home at mo, but pretty good: I think I had a 70 or 71 almost a genuine EF, a 52 about VF, a 60 large O and one in the 60s the latter two pretty non-descript but certainly better than bullion grade.

[morezone]

A luxury case is needed.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/presentation-case-OR-24-x-gold-full-half-sovereign-/391056468763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0cc82b1b

[K_theepan]

A luxury case is needed.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/presentation-case-OR-24-x-gold-full-half-sovereign-/391056468763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0cc82b1b

i seen it last week and still really tempted

or you buy this one can put all your sov. in.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/exclusiv-presentation-case-90-x-gold-full-half-sovereign-/391059400618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0cf4e7aa

[morezone]

I'd love the Lunar 2 one but at almost £250 for 12 coins, it's a little pricy.  They do look lovely though.

[Lindeman]

Just a question for the sovereign fans: does anyone specifically collect the different mintmarks, and do you typically pay a few £ more to get an S or M or SA on your sovereign? I am torn between buying one of each just for the history - but on the other hand I get the feeling that when it's time to sell say to HGM they will just give a standard bullion price for all. I'm. Other words I should only bother seeking these coins out for their modest collectible/historical value. So far I only have an 1894 M sovereign...but I do like looking at it!

[sovereignsteve]

Just a question for the sovereign fans: does anyone specifically collect the different mintmarks, and do you typically pay a few £ more to get an S or M or SA on your sovereign? I am torn between buying one of each just for the history - but on the other hand I get the feeling that when it's time to sell say to HGM they will just give a standard bullion price for all. I'm. Other words I should only bother seeking these coins out for their modest collectible/historical value. So far I only have an 1894 M sovereign...but I do like looking at it!

Wow where to start? My opinion of mintmarks is that they are irrelevant unless (a) you want one of each mint per year, or ( you are a collector and want the rarer coins of that particular year.

Some years sovereigns were only produced at certain mints or in fewer numbers.

Being a collector, I want the rarer and better preserved specimens because they are nicer to look at and retain their value pretty much regardless of the spot price. The actual mintmark is irrelevant to me unless it fulfils the above criteria.

Having said that I do have lots of common dates/mintmarks picked up before I know enough about sovereigns and which were the ones to collect.

I am more likely to sell these when needed or when the spot price is better.

Also, there are some designs where the mintmark is on the ground under the G&D and is so small that you need a magnifier to see it.

You are right about HGM and I guess all bullion dealers in that they will only give their usual % of spot regardless of the coin. Although HGM sell shields at a premium whether they buy them at a premium, who knows?

[Keithoil]

Just a question for the sovereign fans: does anyone specifically collect the different mintmarks, and do you typically pay a few £ more to get an S or M or SA on your sovereign? I am torn between buying one of each just for the history - but on the other hand I get the feeling that when it's time to sell say to HGM they will just give a standard bullion price for all. I'm. Other words I should only bother seeking these coins out for their modest collectible/historical value. So far I only have an 1894 M sovereign...but I do like looking at it!

Yes I do collect them, but I do not go out of my way to get them.

 

Some of them command quite a high premium.

 

Currently have 6 with mint marks.

[ArthGoch]

Just a question for the sovereign fans: does anyone specifically collect the different mintmarks, and do you typically pay a few £ more to get an S or M or SA on your sovereign? 

 

The widely accepted rare/semi rare by date and mint marks up to 1932, and which would command a premium against its peers are shown below.

 

Would agree with  sovereignsteve that with the exception of those listed below, condition would be as much a variable to price as would be the mint mark.  

 

1908 Edward VII Ottawa Mint

1913 George V Ottawa Mint 

1916 George V Ottawa Mint

1917 George V London Mint

1920 George V Sydney Mint

1920 George V Melbourne Mint

1921 George V Melbourne Mint

1922 George V Melbourne Mint

1922 George V Sydney Mint

1923 George V Sydney Mint

1923 George V Pretoria 

1924 George V Pretoria Mint

1924 George V Sydney Mint

1926 George V Sydney Mint

1926 George V Pretoria 

1927 George V Melbourne Mint 

1928 George V Melbourne Mint 

1929 George V Melbourne Mint 

[Kman]

I never thought to bother looking for mint marks, just looked, the 1884 shield sov I got from HGM has a "M" Melbourne mint mark

 

2,942,630 so not a small mintage, but still pretty cool to have one from Australia 

 

You can see the M in the pic below if you squint lol. 

 

Thanks guys

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

Nice shield Kman.

 

AG I think you made a typo in your post:

The rare mintmarks for 1926 are Sydney, Perth and Melbourne. Pretoria produced 80-90% of all sovereigns that year.

 

Some of the coins you listed are extremely rare but even with these, condition is still extremely important and has a large bearing on value.

 

Mintages themselves are quite interesting. Take 1926 for example:

Melbourne 211,107

Sydney 1,031,050

Perth 1,313,578

Pretoria 11,107,611

Yet the rarest coin by far is the Sydney. Why?

 

Sovereigns were used for everyday money and many became worn out quickly. Such coins were picked out of circulation and returned to the mint for melting down. Also there were occasions such as 1917 where although over a million sovereigns were produced in the London mint, they are today very rare. There is no doubt that large amounts of gold were sent to the USA as debt repayment during the war so probably a large proportion of the 1917 coins were melted into ingots for this purpose.

[Lindeman]

Thanks guys! Interesting stuff. I am pretty intrigued by the history behind these, and how some years are rare to find - like sovereignsteve said.

This website is useful. http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/mintsandmintmarks.html

Glad you took a closer look Kman for the M!

Bottom line - think I would like one of each.

[sovereignsteve]

Thanks guys! Interesting stuff. I am pretty intrigued by the history behind these, and how some years are rare to find - like sovereignsteve said.

This website is useful. http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/mintsandmintmarks.html

Glad you took a closer look Kman for the M!

Bottom line - think I would like one of each.

Good idea but don't start looking at die numbers on victoria shields!

[HighlandTiger]

A question for Sov Steve.

 

You obviously know your sovs, (at least much better than most of us on here). Have you come across any decent websites, (and I don't mean chards), or books for sovs which talk about values, as opposed to just official mintages. Because like you have already said, mintage figures don't necessarily square up with actual scarcity of a coin.

[coppernut]

Good idea but don't start looking at die numbers on victoria shields!

Why is that Steve?

[Kman]

Why is that Steve?

 

Suppose it would make a lot more to collect