Sovereigns. Time to get some gold

[Kman]

Should i right from the start be a collector of sovereigns and go for anything different? or just buy what ever i can get regardless and just go for volume as looking at the bay sovereigns sell very well regardless..

 

My main gold buying strategy is to wait

 

Wait for the deals

 

Here, HGM, Ebay (the only problem with the above is you have to sit bloody refreshing everything every 5 minutes lol)

 

My trouble too is that I'm picky, I don't like buying gold for gold I like particular coins. 

 

But if you just want gold, the last couple of days for instance Arshimo sold a 2.5g pamp necklace/bar thing for spot + postage & HGM had two 1/20 isle of man angels for £40 each

 

Both great deals

 

Just have to try your best to get collectible/numismatic items at or close to bullion prices & get the best of both worlds. 

 

But yeah I suppose that's a lot more tough if you aren't able to sit refreshing all day. 

[Guest]

You have to really watch out on mintages particularly with RM as they are decidedly disingenuous ....

Authorized? Issued? Minted? Sold? Available in this special packaging? Available to the trade with different packaging? First strike?

I am only interested in one figure and that's the one that's most elusive. How many were sold in total of that type?

With RM it's VERY difficult to gauge rarity and when it comes to modern issues it is about demand versus mintages. It is all market manipulation and psychological manipulation and something with 100 sold may not be demanded but 15,000 sold maybe a huge demand because it fits into a new collection or has a 1 year design.

In the UK 1,000 is a reasonable limited mintage. I the USA 100,000 maybe just as limited due to the millions who collect coins.

I only buy if I love the coin, I believe in the story, and the mintage is low enough to see a future up side.

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[HighlandTiger]

Hi all. As my name suggests i am into silver,but i want to stack some gold, i have bought a case for half sovereigns but my dilemma is. Should i right from the start be a collector of sovereigns and go for anything different? or just buy what ever i can get regardless and just go for volume as looking at the bay sovereigns sell very well regardless.

If i go for just bullion grade should there be a bench mark buy price say of don't go over a £100 delivered?

As collector route, should i within reason buy it anyway to buy it for the collection.

Sorry if this sounds daft but basically i am a newbie at gold.

My train of thinking is once my cash has gone,sell 1oz of silver a week in old age and a gold coin once a month if i have enough stacked by then to do this.If i don't need to sell any i will pass it down.

Lots of ideas going through my head.A case of gold per child/grandchild is a nice heirloom if not needed to be sold.so would a collection case or a bullion case be better?

I must admit i am quite excited over this new venture in my stacking.What do you guy's and girl's prefer to stack on the sovereign side of things?What float's your boat?

 

Sovereigns cannot be beat, either for stacking or collecting. If stacking then I would never go any more than 5% over spot delivered, and if buying a proof never go more than 25% over spot delivered. 

 

There are only three places I would buy sovereigns from online, (apart from on here when someone is selling), HGM,((who are usually the cheapest), Atkinsons, and the Bullion Centre, (remember if buying from the bullion centre to contact them first for a price, as they will match both HGM and Atkinsons on delivered prices),

 

You also have that added bonus, when buying bullion, of not quite knowing what you will get, and you may get a coin with a rarer mint mark. In recent weeks, we have seen people who have bought bullion and found that they have received more valuable shield sovereigns, proof sovereigns and sovereigns from India.

 

Don't ignore half sovs, as they can be bought at the same mark up as full sovs, but command a larger premium on ebay. My thoughts are, If gold doubles in price at any time in the future then because half sovs would be more in the reach of peoples pockets because they are half the price of sovs, then you might find the premium becomes even greater.

 

And worse case scenario bullion dealers will buy back sovs at 100% of spot for quick and easy cash.

 

oh, and buy the two books from Michael A Marsh. The Gold Sovereign, and the Gold Half Sovereign. (the latter can be found on ebay for a ridiculously cheap price of £4.50)

[Ares]

I really enjoy picking up the mixed sovereigns from Atkinsons, either I get an older one which i'd prefer more or a new one which I could sell in an instant if I needed too because I don't particularly like it.

[sovereignsteve]

I have nearly stacked 100oz of bullion silver and they are in tubes wrapped to the hilt and to be honest it is as boring as hell.I don't spend much but would like to make it a bit more interesting to keep me motivated.Fare comment though.

I am thinking of going for 2002 shield back half sovereign  £111.86 from Atkinsons.Thoughts anyone?

Sounds like you're bored with just stacking silver bullion and need a bit of interest. Severeigns are ideal. As others have said, buy at bullion prices, also save your money to buy on dips and also more than one coin to save on average postage costs. I love halves but they are more difficult to collect as in general, anything post victoria is pretty boring (except 2002 05 12) and anything pre 1888 is relatively costly. Also halves were mose used for circulated money and better specimens are difficult to obtain. Full sovereigns have more potential interest but more expensive obviously.

If I were in your shoes, just starting. Buy the books, Marsh and Spink. Get a reasonable float before starting. Start buying bullion sovereigns, as many as you can at a time. Keep the better quality and rarer types and sell the rest. Rinse and repeat.

This way over time you will build up a collection of coins worth more than bullion value to sell when needed.

It's a facinating hobby.

[sovereignsteve]

Ok for recent year coins but with older sovereigns, the mintage can be misleading as it's surviving coins that decide value.

I am only interested in one figure and that's the one that's most elusive. How many were sold in total of that type?





 

[HighlandTiger]

Question for SovSteve. What are your thoughts on cleaned sovs. Quite a few bullion dealers now clean the coins as a matter of course now. I don't have an issue with cleaned coins, but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

HT

[Guest]

Ok for recent year coins but with older sovereigns, the mintage can be misleading as it's surviving coins that decide value.

Yes I did say for moderns. For Sovs we have Marsh and this gives an idea of absolute rarity.

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[sovereignsteve]

Question for SovSteve. What are your thoughts on cleaned sovs. Quite a few bullion dealers now clean the coins as a matter of course now. I don't have an issue with cleaned coins, but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

HT

Easy question; NEVER clean a sovereign.

 

Having said that, nothing is ever truly black and white. I have on occasions cleaned them myself but I know what I am doing and have a scientific background.

Having only recently found The Bullion Centre, I was interested to read that they clean their sovereigns in an ultrasonic bath. This has two potential problems depending on what cleaning solution they use and whether several coins are in there with a potential for contact and subsequent damage.

I will have to phone them about this as I am also interested in their description of grades.

What other dealers say they clean sovereigns?

 

I would say that in 99.9% of cases, cleaning a sov will do more harm than good. Certainly on older, rarer sovs, it is an absolue no no.

[SilverPirate]

 

Not that impressed with my new case cheap and nasty,but i have to start some where,my eyes are not the best and being half sovereigns i am finding it hard to drool over, can not make a lot out  Especially the dates.Plenty of room now to stack with what i have.

I do like the idea now of full sovereigns as these are bigger and more easy on the eye.

Many thanks for the advice please keep them coming.

[coppernut]

DSCF5793.JPGDSCF5794.JPG

 

Not that impressed with my new case cheap and nasty,but i have to start some where,my eyes are not the best and being half sovereigns i am finding it hard to drool over, can not make a lot out  Especially the dates.Plenty of room now to stack with what i have.

I do like the idea now of full sovereigns as these are bigger and more easy on the eye.

 

SilverPirate,

They look fine to me mate, nothing wrong with the cases at all.

Yeah , there is something about a Full sovereign that just makes you go funny at the knees   as opposed to a half'.

Keep it going mate.

[sovereignsteve]

SilverPirate,

They look fine to me mate, nothing wrong with the cases at all.

Yeah , there is something about a Full sovereign that just makes you go funny at the knees   as opposed to a half'.

Keep it going mate.

Doubles are better but not many of them until recent years. Five pounds are awesome.

[HighlandTiger]

Does anyone think this coin looks a little dodgy to them?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beautiful-19th-Century-British-Queen-Victoria-Diamond-Jubilee-Gold-Sovereign-/181680857298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d05e0d2

[Keithoil]

DSCF5793.JPGDSCF5794.JPG

 

Not that impressed with my new case cheap and nasty,but i have to start some where,my eyes are not the best and being half sovereigns i am finding it hard to drool over, can not make a lot out  Especially the dates.Plenty of room now to stack with what i have.

I do like the idea now of full sovereigns as these are bigger and more easy on the eye.

Many thanks for the advice please keep them coming.

Hi SP you need to get one of these or very similar, I have one of these:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60X-Magnifying-Glass-Jeweler-Eye-Jewelry-Loupe-Loop-Led-Light-/391023205103?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0acc9aef

 

I have a couple of this type:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-20x-Magnifying-Magnifier-Glass-Jewellers-Eye-Foldable-Jewelry-Loop-Loupe-/400877140650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d5623baaa

 

Just see which you find the best, as they are relatively cheap to buy.

[Stu]

Does anyone think this coin looks a little dodgy to them?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beautiful-19th-Century-British-Queen-Victoria-Diamond-Jubilee-Gold-Sovereign-/181680857298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d05e0d2

Have no idea on the authenticity, however reserve is not yet met. Judging by the "description" of the coin, I would decline a purchase purely on these grounds alone. (Grandfather etc, bog off , tell me about the goods, not some irrelevant rubbish)

[sovereignsteve]

Does anyone think this coin looks a little dodgy to them?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beautiful-19th-Century-British-Queen-Victoria-Diamond-Jubilee-Gold-Sovereign-/181680857298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d05e0d2

In what way do you think it looks dodgy?

If you mean the finish on the obverse? Then yes it's a little "grainy" but probably just a poor photo and knocked about a bit.

If you mean the date? There were no 1897 London mint sovs, I would say it looks like a Sydney mint but photos not good enough to be sure.

It's unlikely anyone would counterfeit an old head sov as they are very common and worth only bullion unless in uncirculated condition.

[HighlandTiger]

In what way do you think it looks dodgy?

If you mean the finish on the obverse? Then yes it's a little "grainy" but probably just a poor photo and knocked about a bit.

 

 

Yeah it's the grainy look, lack of mint mark, like you say, there are no London 1897 sovs, the "grandfather story" oh and the fact that there are known 1897 fakes about

 

http://goldsovereignexpert.com/info/fake-gold-sovereigns-spotting-counterfeits/

[sovereignsteve]

Yeah it's the grainy look, lack of mint mark, like you say, there are no London 1897 sovs, the "grandfather story" oh and the fact that there are known 1897 fakes about

 

http://goldsovereignexpert.com/info/fake-gold-sovereigns-spotting-counterfeits/

I haven't seen that but I do know there are fakes of non-existent mintmark sovs around. I thought I could see a "S" mintmark for Sydney but difficult to see as is poor photo.

[sovereignsteve]

I actually have a couple of fakes, but they are obvious and I bought them as such just out curiosity. I think I paid around 80% spot for them.

They are good weight and size and I had them checked with a X Ray diffraction analyser, I think they are about 2% less gold than they should be. We think they are Lebanese in origin.

[Kman]

Yeah it's the grainy look, lack of mint mark, like you say, there are no London 1897 sovs, the "grandfather story" oh and the fact that there are known 1897 fakes about

 

http://goldsovereignexpert.com/info/fake-gold-sovereigns-spotting-counterfeits/

 

I put it in photoshop and tried messing around with the colours and brightness/contrast

 

Looks like it might have an "S" mint mark 

 

[coppernut]

Doubles are better but not many of them until recent years. Five pounds are awesome.

Ive never seen a double tbh,

i dont think my legs would stand the sight of a double

[sovereignsteve]

Ive never seen a double tbh,

i dont think my legs would stand the sight of a double

there was a £5 on HGM at about 15.55 today 2011 a proof from a set I would guess. Would have bought it but spent too much recently.

[Yeti]

there was a £5 on HGM at about 15.55 today 2011 a proof from a set I would guess. Would have bought it but spent too much recently.

I bought the double yesterday and was toying with the idea of the £5 obviously from the same set but lo and behold it didn't last long!

[Kman]

Just saw one of these on Ebay, 1870 Australian sovereign

 

Never seen this portrait of Victoria, very cool

 

[sovereignsteve]

They're nice aren't they?

Problem is the reverse is crap and it's this that has stopped me getting any, along with the difficulty in getting reliable valuations.

I had the chance of a few last year but dipped out. Wished I had now as prices are a lot higher than they were.