Magritte

This pretty much sums it up, figures might be a bit out of date now though.....
 

Britannia Misinformation by a Reputable Dealer
Anyone can make a mistake, but when "experts" are airing their knowledge to educate and impress customers with their vast knowledge, they ought to check their facts, and get things right.
According to one of our competitors:
These will be the first ever Britannia coins not to feature Queen Elizabeth II, marking a new chapter in this iconic British coin series.
This is of course incorrect.
The first ever Britannia coins were issued by the Ancient Romans. Here is a page of information about them:
https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/roman-britannia/338

Britannia Seated on the Reverse of an As of Antoninus Pius
The first British coins to feature Britannia were farthings issued in 1672, and had King Charles II's portrait on the obverse, and were quickly followed later that year by halfpennies.
Here is a page about these early British copper coins:
https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=britannia2.html

Britannia on 1672 Copper Farthing of King Charles II
There were then tin halfpennies and farthings issued from 1684 which still had Charles II's head on the obverse, as well as Britannia on the reverse.
More of both denomination continued in tin for James II, then William and Mary, until 1692.
From 1694, copper halfpence and farthing production was resumed for William and Mary, then William III.
Copper Britannia farthings of Queen Anne are a famous rarity, and no halfpennies were produced for her.
Britannia farthings continued during the reigns of George I, George II, and George III.
There were even copper cartwheel pennies and twopences issued in 1797. These featured Britannia, and were the first two ounce and one ounce Britannia coin.

Britannia on 1797 Copper Cartwheel Twopence Weight Two Ounces
Copper Britannia pennies, halfpennies, and farthings were issued for George IV and William IV.
There were also Copper Britannia half farthings and third farthings issued for both of these Monarchs.
For William IV, there were silver groats, with a denomination of fourpence, issued in 1836 and 1837. These were the first ever British silver Britannias.

Britannia on 1836 Silver Groat of William IV
These Britannia groats were continued for Queen Victoria from 1837 to 1862.
Copper pennies (1839 to 1860), halfpennies (1838 to 1860), farthings (1838 to 1864), half farthings (1838 to 1868), third farthings (1844), and even quarter farthings (1838 to 1868)were issued for Queen Victoria.
Bronze coinage generally replaced copper from 1860, including Britannia bronze pennies, halfpennies, and farthings.
These were continued for Edward VII. George V, and George VI, although the George halfpennies featured a ship and his farthings featured a wren.
That is a long list, and I may have omitted some coins, please let me know if I have.
I am always wiliing both to learn and to correct my errors.
😎

Really bored at work last night so thought I would have a look how certain things performed in 2022. I used the macro trends website and looked at the price on the 1st of Jan 2022 and compared to current price. If I am slightly off it was 3am so don't shoot the messenger but interesting to visualize. 
Metals
Gold (4.9% down), silver (0.54% up), platinum (4.4% up), palladium (16% down), copper (88.46% up), tin (44% down). 
Crypto 
BTC (64% down), Eth (67% down).
Top companies
Apple (25% down), Google (38% down), Microsoft (27% down), Amazon (49% down). 
Copper seems to be a clear winner for the year and is interesting to see how it's unaffected from the downturn. The most disappointing for me is tin as both are used in industry and would thought they would be more aligned. metals in general have held up well considering everything else. 
 
 

Pre 1920 and Pre 1947 UK Silver Coins as Scrap or Bullion - Some Historic Perspectives
I was asked in a thread "Pre 20s UK silver coins":
"I've often wondered about this. How prevalent were pre-47s in the 1950s and 60s?
I know pre-20s were still around, but very few and far between!"
Although I provided and answer there, I thought this may be of interest to many if not most silver stackers on TSF, so I have repeated it here:
I wish I could have given you a quick answer from memory or contemporary notes, but I had to do some research including price look-ups, which are more easily available in US dollars than in pounds sterling, so I would also need to find historic exchange rates, feed them into a spreadsheet, and more.
I think my first awareness of silver prices, and silver content in coins, was about American coins, probably because they were still using 90% silver in coins up to and including the 1964 Kennedy half dollar.
The Silver Institute https://www.silverinstitute.org/silverprice/1960-1965/ has this:
"Once the Treasury stopped selling at that price, market quotes for silver quickly rose. In June 1963 the Treasury replaced the $1 silver certificate with Federal Reserve notes. By 1963, silver prices reached $1.29, the monetary value of silver in coinage. At prices above this level, holders of silver certificates would have been able to redeem them for more valuable silver, under the now-defunct silver certificate legislation. (The other trigger price the Treasury worried about was $1.38, at which level it would have become profitable to recycle coinage for its silver content.)"
I can remember silver certificates selling for a slight premium, and this must have been around 1963/4.
While checking historic silver prices in pounds, using https://www.chards.co.uk/silver-price/silver-price-history, I noticed a price as low as £0.07 in January 1932. Prices from 1792 to 1891, they had been about £0.30 to £0.20 per ounce, with a few peaks at around £0.36; I can only assume that the 1932 low was due to the Great Depression.
Silver would have need to be above about 0.30 per ounce to make pre-1920 coins worth a premium for their silver content, and back then we were not aware of anyone stashing silver coins as a precious metal investment, mot of the market activity was aimed at scrapping it, and refining cost could easily have been as high as about 20%, meaning prices above about 40p would have been needed. This was reached in 1960, but I was never aware of any big volume market.
For pre-1947 coins, spot silver would have needed to be above about 60p, and this was reached in 1966. Again, I was not aware of any volume market until later.
I can see that spot silver was £1.88 per ounce in January 1974, and I can remember having an extremely busy period, or about 6 months during 1974, which entailed 16 hours working days, with perhaps 12 hours on Sunday. At one period, we were shipping up to 1.5 tonnes about 3 times per week, to be scrapped. Some time before that, we did sort through bank bags, and often got about 20% yield of pre-1947, with a few pre-1920 finds.
Before the end of 1947, most tof the pre-1947 coins had all but disappeared form circulation, although some still turned up from bank's old "bullion" stock reserves.
By the time silver hit over £21 in the crazy Bunker Hunt days of 1980, most of the scrap silver we handled came from silver items such as cutlery, trophies, tea sets, etc., rather than coinage.
Some of the dates and values above may be approximate, because it is not quick and easy to find daily prices in sterling for the period.

😎

My view is that a coin should be at least 90% silver to be worth having, because they cost money, they are heavy, and they take up space.  So if I'm going to have it then it should be worth keeping.
My collection, if it hadn't been lost in that tragic event, would include mostly historical coins, which were minted by governments.  Not because I trust or am in love with gov't but because these coins are known and accepted.  For example, 1955-1960 Mexican 10 pesos crown-sized coins.  Those are beefy chunky silver coins!  For smaller coins, it's US pre-1965 silver dimes.  Because they're known coins they should be more practical and usable if silver coinage becomes currency again.
Same principle applies to gold stacking.

Made my day seeing that lot. Thanks

I think they're a sleeper, get 'em if you see them!

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

BEAUTIFUL!
How many 1894s have you got there? It took me a while to find one of those at reasonable price!
About £34 10/- there in face. That's quite some haul.

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

I have a bit of an obsession with early & late milled crowns 😁

If you give me a sense of the time period you're interested in, it'll help me get a rough area.
Hammered coins (pre-1662)
Early Milled (1662-1815)
Late Milled (1816-1967)
Decimal (1968-present)

Gold is for kings.
Silver is for gentleman.
Debt is for the ignorant.
Empire's are run by emperor's.
Kingdoms are run by kings and Queens.
We live in a country run by cnuts..
 

I've said this before that the next middle East will be South America. Mark my words. Resources and El Salvador turning to crypto. Central Banks won't like that...
Western foreign policy will come and intervene. Mark my words. The narrative will the drug cartels.... But that's been going on for years.
I'm glad I'm not in the military no more. Our generation of soldiers are battle worn. And all were mainly started by Tony Blair.... Iraq Kosovo Bosnia Afghanistan Sierra Leone 
Add his pandora papers in the mix. You can tell by the cut of his jib he's a cretin...
 

In times like this, central banks usually are net buyers of gold.
I still believe there has to be a reason why Gordon Brown announced the bulk sale before it happened. There has to be a cunning reason.... right? (I believe the money raised was invested in a higher return asset but why announce the sale?! it immediately depressed the sale price when he eventually sold!)
There are also rumours (mostly assumptions based on rumours) that China actually has 10x the amount of reserve gold because they mine the living hell out of it straight to reserve. Strategy against the dollar in the future? Why not! They'd be silly NOT to do that based on their persuasion and position. Either way, you can assume all 'privately' held gold in China is the CCPs to 'patriotically' 'appropriate' through 'indirect' methods at any time because Communism (not like US 1934). But that's another topic entirely and probably not for this forum.

Yesterday the Fed hiked rates. It wasn’t exactly a surprise. For gold and silver investors it was yet another great opportunity to remind ourselves why we invest in gold bars or buy silver coins - because central banks are predictable.

They do not have perfect economic knowledge, they do not create long-term value and they are always reacting to the consequences of their poor decisions. Of course gold and silver are in high demand right now - precious metals are one of the few remaining ways to keep out of the way of central banks decisions and to protect your wealth. 
 
The Federal Reserve raised the fed funds rate by a further 75 basis points to a range of 3.75% to 4.00%, as expected this week. And the statement had hints of a possible pivot – or slowing of rate increases.  Citing the slowing of global activity and mentioning “the committee will take into account the cumulative tightening of monetary policy, the lags with which monetary policy affects economic activity and inflation, and financial developments”, the Fed gave faint hope to bond and equity investors. Markets took the statement as a dovish sign and rallied. Gold rallied too, for a moment. 
But then in what one Bloomberg commentator called a ’bait and switch’….  “Like a reproving parent, the Federal Reserve chairman quickly put the kibosh on any budding euphoria his comments about monitoring the lagged effect of interest rate policy might have provoked.”
 
Powell then went on to reiterate that “rates are going up” adding “probably more than people thought.”
 
After the initial surge markets sank – to finish far lower. The S&P 500 index surged 1% - then closed the day down 2.5% - its steepest drop since mid-October. 
Markets are looking for central banks to pivot to easier policy – which we think they will do next year as economic growth weakens and unemployment surges, but we also propose that there is an additional pivot on the horizon which is far more important for our readers – that the inflation target rate itself will ‘pivot’ higher.

Please take a moment to reread our primer on inflation target rates  from May 26 – Did Central Banks arrive at their Target Inflation Rate by Mere Fluke? As economic activity wanes, house prices fall, equity markets drop and mortgage rates rise - we remind readers that the 2% rate inflation target was set by a fluke.
Central bankers are, of course, denying that they are even thinking about doubling the inflation target from 2% to 4% – but central bankers change their messaging often. Remember it was last year at this time rates were still at near zero and central banks were trying to convince the world that high inflation rates were completely ‘transitory’ and we would be back to 2% levels by now.  
A higher target inflation rate could end up being the central banker ‘get out of jail free card’. It enables central banks to pause rate hikes while inflation remains high as economic activity weakens and housing prices fall – and it also benefits governments by inflating away some of the massive debt loads that have built up through years of overspending.
This pivot could play out as a ‘temporary’ increase in the inflation target rate. Again, going back to last year, central banks were also proclaiming the message that inflation could run above target for some time since it had been below the inflation target for many years.
Some inflationary pressures have abated – supply chains are being restored for example. However, others are long lasting new policies, such as ‘friend-shoring’ aka protectionist policies – no matter the name, the resulting higher prices are a new reality. Another source of higher inflation for years to come is the move to renewable and sustainable energy. New price hikes are coming as the technologies are developed but the commodities needed are in short supply.        
One might ask why governments would support central banks increasing the targeted rate of inflation – the simple answer: governments like to spend more than they have which has led to massive debt levels. One way to reduce these massive debt levels – higher inflation!

The only other way to reduce debt levels is financial repression and austerity. The problem with austerity is that governments choosing this route are quickly voted out of office. See our post from March 4 Central Banks Still Do “Whatever It Takes”! for more on government options on reducing massive debt levels.
Bottom line: The Fed Still Has No Idea What’s Coming Next, which was the headline to our March post after the Fed raised the fed funds rate for the first time this year.

Finally we remind readers that no central banker can inflate five pounds of gold into ten pounds of gold. Paper currency is inflated at a pace controlled by the government. One of the best reasons to own physical metals is storing wealth outside a system which is built on debt and government promise.
 
If you’re keen to hear more about FOMC actions, or the wider macro-economic landscape then have a look at our YouTube Channel, GoldCore TV. This week we discussed access to rare earths and how the West’s energy supply hangs in the balance. See the conversation with Dr Stephen Leeb, here. 

Bank of England Interest Rate Increase - Yet Gold and Precious Metals Higher as Pound Drops Against US Dollar
From the BBC News:
Biggest interest rate hike in decades as Bank warns of long recession.
Pound drops following interest rate move
Sterling fell sharply following the the Bank of England's interest rate decision.
The Bank's warnings over a prolonged recession saw the pound drop by nearly 2% to 1.12 against the US dollar in London trading. It also finished 0.7% lower against the euro.
The 0.75% increase to 3.0% was clearly intended to help steady and support the pound after the recent US Fed rate rise, but contrary to expectation the pouhd sterling dropped another 2 cents, to just below $1.12
As recently as Monday, it had been trading at above $1.16 making for a 4 cent fall on the week.
S.A News had this headline:
Gold prices slide to lowest in two-and-a-half years following latest Fed rate hike.
But in sterling terms the news was almost the opposite, for example Kitco's headline:
Gold price continues to rise against British pound as BoE governor said inflation threat has never been higher
So, on Monday we saw gold prices around £1415, we are now seeing it at almost £1460 per ounce.
In dollar terms, gold was around $1632 on Monday, rising to around $1655 only yesterday Wednesday, with one short spike to almost $1665; gold dropped to below $1620 earlier today, and is now about $1630 having been as low as $1617.
Despite the headlines, gold in dollars is almost exactly where it started the week, whereas the price in pounds is about £40 higher.
It sounds like the foreign exchange markets expect UK interest rates to rise again soon, although possibly the big damper was the Bank's gloomy recession warning.
What I don't understand here is why the outlook has turned so doomy in just a few days.
Is this still backwash from the Liz Truss / Kwasi Kwarteng fiasco, despite Rishi Sunak promising tax increases in place of tax cuts? Perhaps Truss / Kwarteng caused shook market confidence more than anyone realised. It is almost certain that if they were still in power, that sterling would be trading below parity to the dollar.
😎 - I use this emoji more in hope for the future.

Finally, it's taken a few years but I've got a full £5 face in George IV and William IV coins, all dates of the circulation issues represented (minus the rare stuff for George IV) Plenty of half crowns but rather light on shillings!
If only I could afford William IV gold!
 

Hi All,
This should be a coin of Marcus Aurelius, think from 171AD.
Reverse is winged victory. 
Was excited to get this, however I can't find a like for like online. 
Is this genuine?
Thanks 

I have a spare 1849 as well.  It has a slight edge bruise and it may also have been lightly cleaned at some point.
Once again I bought this from a different reputable dealer about 7 years ago.  I have another one now that I will keep, so this one also needs a good home.
(Neither dealer specified that the coin may have been lightly cleaned, this is just what I think.  They are still nice coins.)
 

1872 is one of the easier years to find, so you should be able to get one in a decent grade for a lower cost than for some other years.
£100 for a VF example (UK grading) from a dealer is probably about right, possibly slightly over book price but not too much.  £100 is definitely too much for a Fine example.
I have an 1852 gothic florin which could potentially be for sale.  Grade wise I would say it's EF but has probably been lightly cleaned.  I bought it from a reputable dealer about 7 years ago, I now have two other gothic florins which I will keep.