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Britannia Misinformation by a Reputable Dealer


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Britannia Misinformation by a Reputable Dealer

Anyone can make a mistake, but when "experts" are airing their knowledge to educate and impress customers with their vast knowledge, they ought to check their facts, and get things right.

According to one of our competitors:

These will be the first ever Britannia coins not to feature Queen Elizabeth II, marking a new chapter in this iconic British coin series.

This is of course incorrect.

The first ever Britannia coins were issued by the Ancient Romans. Here is a page of information about them:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/roman-britannia/338

britannia-seated-on-the-reverse-of-an-as-of-antoninus-pius.jpg.167edfbcc5d5e4fc4e5d50ffe60d1625.jpg

Britannia Seated on the Reverse of an As of Antoninus Pius

The first British coins to feature Britannia were farthings issued in 1672, and had King Charles II's portrait on the obverse, and were quickly followed later that year by halfpennies.

Here is a page about these early British copper coins:

https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=britannia2.html

1672farthingrev400.jpg.9880ee331c39dc7e7800701a66286906.jpg

Britannia on 1672 Copper Farthing of King Charles II

There were then tin halfpennies and farthings issued from 1684 which still had Charles II's head on the obverse, as well as Britannia on the reverse.

More of both denomination continued in tin for James II, then William and Mary, until 1692.

From 1694, copper halfpence and farthing production was resumed for William and Mary, then William III.

Copper Britannia farthings of Queen Anne are a famous rarity, and no halfpennies were produced for her.

Britannia farthings continued during the reigns of George I, George II, and George III.

There were even copper cartwheel pennies and twopences issued in 1797. These featured Britannia, and were the first two ounce and one ounce Britannia coin.

1797twopencecopperrev400.jpg.41086c6a114c3df11bdbd49f4f8584d1.jpg

Britannia on 1797 Copper Cartwheel Twopence Weight Two Ounces

Copper Britannia pennies, halfpennies, and farthings were issued for George IV and William IV.

There were also Copper Britannia half farthings and third farthings issued for both of these Monarchs.

For William IV, there were silver groats, with a denomination of fourpence, issued in 1836 and 1837. These were the first ever British silver Britannias.

1836groatgefrev400.jpg.6b659dc973be4b9fa101ddd9c03aacb9.jpg

Britannia on 1836 Silver Groat of William IV

These Britannia groats were continued for Queen Victoria from 1837 to 1862.

Copper pennies (1839 to 1860), halfpennies (1838 to 1860), farthings (1838 to 1864), half farthings (1838 to 1868), third farthings (1844), and even quarter farthings (1838 to 1868)were issued for Queen Victoria.

Bronze coinage generally replaced copper from 1860, including Britannia bronze pennies, halfpennies, and farthings.

These were continued for Edward VII. George V, and George VI, although the George halfpennies featured a ship and his farthings featured a wren.

That is a long list, and I may have omitted some coins, please let me know if I have.

I am always wiliing both to learn and to correct my errors.

😎

Edited by LawrenceChard

Chards

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31 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

they ought to check thier facts, and get things right.

...and their spelling too!

😎

Technically, alcohol is a solution..

'It [socialism] poses a growing threat, however unintentional, to the freedom of this country, for there is no freedom where the State totally controls the economy. Personal freedom and economic freedom are indivisible. You can’t have one without the other. You can’t lose one without losing the other.'

"There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money"

Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live.

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39 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

These will be the first ever Britannia coins since 1987 not to feature Queen Elizabeth II, marking a new chapter in this iconic British coin series.

The coins you show are all beautiful aren't they?

Edited by Roy

Technically, alcohol is a solution..

'It [socialism] poses a growing threat, however unintentional, to the freedom of this country, for there is no freedom where the State totally controls the economy. Personal freedom and economic freedom are indivisible. You can’t have one without the other. You can’t lose one without losing the other.'

"There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money"

Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live.

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6 hours ago, Happypanda88 said:

Britannia Misinformation by a Reputable Dealer

A bit like a click-bait this post. I thought it was something so unforgivable that deserves capital punishment. 😎

I can understand that, and it is a very reasonable point, however...

If an "expert" or specialist publishes something which is intended to inform others, and which might impress others by his expert knowledge, then he should take enough care to get it right, and this might entail checking his facts, perhaps asking himself before publication, otherwise he risks revealling himself to be less expert than he is trying to appear.

If this was one single example from this particular dealer, then I might well have just shrugged, and ignored it, but it is not. In fact, if it was competitor who I had great respect for, I might alert them to the error, so they could correct it quickly and quietly.

I have very little respect for this particular dealer, and have noted many occasions when he displays a lack of professional, integrity, or expertise. I will not list all of them here, although I will note that I only noticed the misinformation after it came to my attention that the dealer was in breach, yet again, of an RM embargo  on the release of an important new coin. This is unfari on all the reputable and ethical distributors who respect and observe the embargo. It give the breacher a short term competitive advantage, and possibly some kudos and free publicity for being the first to break the news, but carries a long term risk of being penalised by the RM, and it also risks damaging any respect that competitors may have for him.

There is also the risk, that the RM may delay, suspend, or cancel his allocation of the product or even terminate its trading agreement with him. This would put any of his customers at risk of their orders being delayed or worse. Potential buyers should therefore be aware that buying from unethical embargo breakers carries a greater risk than buying from more ethical dealers.

The reference to capital punishment reminds me of Al Capone, who was popular and well respected by some, but who was responsible for many crimes, including murder, and  was only convicted for tax evasion.

Of course, I could have changed the topic title to "BRITANNIA MISINFORMATION BY A REPUTABLE DEALER", but I am not sure that would consitute capital punishment, and it also contravenes TSF guidelines for titles.

😎

Chards

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13 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Come on then, name them. You're always berating others on here for not doing so😉

13 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am sure you know, or could Google it!

😎

There is also a valid reason why I did not "name", partly because of an important difference in this case.

If someone asks "is this coin genuine / a good deal, etc" and includes a name and preferably a link, members can see a bigger picture, and thus it is easier for them to provide an opinion and advice. If, for example, the item is "Dodgy Dave on ebay offering a genuine one ounce gold Britannia for £1000", this will provide enough evidence for members to make an informed judgement.

In this case, I am not seeking advice, but expressing a considered opinion. While my criticism is valid, I need to be aware that this is a competitor. First, I should ensure that my comments are not defamatory, but I also need to ensure that I do not give the dealer any valid or reasonable grounds for accusing me of defamation. Naming him directly might be considered unnecessary, and even if my facts were impeccable, this could give some grounds for complaint.

A similar comment or opinion by a non-competitor might be completely wrong or ill-founded, yet not give rise to any grounds for legal action.

There are two main reasons for my post. One is to correct the misinformation, and help to ensure that people have access to correct information. The other is to point out that there is misinformation, and that this misinformation was published by a source which many might expect to be accurate. The dealer in question is not the only one who publishes incorrect or misleading information, but I do not have the time to highlight every single case.

😎

Chards

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I know which dealer you are referring to, but I'm still not convinced there's any misinformation in their claim.

It is the first Britannia coin to not feature Queen Elizabeth II, isn't it? (Britannia being the actual name of a coin in Royal Mint's bullion range https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_(coin))

It's obviously not the first non-QE2 coin with a depiction of Britannia on it, but I don't think their claim has the same semantics as that.

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14 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am sure you know, or could Google it!

😎

I don't know how long the "information" you mention has been on their website, but it never ceases to amaze me how quickly the Google bot finds everything on the WWW so quickly.

Anyway, I have been buying from the said dealer for many years and have never regarded them as a "Coin" dealer merely a "Bullion" one with little or no numismatic expertise. I therefore would never take much notice of any info they post. Others less experienced may well not know this and therefore your criticism is valid.

I'm sure I won't be the only one here who has benefited from said lack of numismatic knowledge by snapping up real bargains from their website on many occasions.😊

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I don't know how long the "information" you mention has been on their website, but it never ceases to amaze me how quickly the Google bot finds everything on the WWW so quickly.

Anyway, I have been buying from the said dealer for many years and have never regarded them as a "Coin" dealer merely a "Bullion" one with little or no numismatic expertise. I therefore would never take much notice of any info they post. Others less experienced may well not know this and therefore your criticism is valid.

I'm sure I won't be the only one here who has benefited from said lack of numismatic knowledge by snapping up real bargains from their website on many occasions.😊

I assume it went live about the same they sent out their embargo busting email, whcih was the day before the embargo date, so the 16th January 2023.

😎

Chards

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