Geovest

interesting piece from SD bullion about the LMBA - have watch of the video
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021-07-11/reddit-wall-street-silver-gets-reuters-snobbery

https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/monthly-central-bank-statistics

I'm strongly attracted to the 1.25% less premium on Brits (at the lowest volume)...
The kicker for me is the frequency at which I can buy, let's say it's either (x2 sov / 30days) or (x1 brit / 60 days) - if on day 45 gold has increased by 10% since your last purchase, with sovs you have already locked in 2 at a lower price on day 30, with brits you still have 15 days of potential further increase... of course there's also the bearish version of this argument to consider but what fool in shorting gold right now?

Hello Everyone,
 
Just a hello from the UK. I am currently an early retiree who has been transferring over my vaulted gold and silver to physical instead. It did well, but the counterparty risk in the current climate means I no longer view the bullion allocation as insurance anymore.
 
Majority of what I had has now been reallocated to physical. Mostly sovereigns, britannias and then a few other items that I thought looked nice and to get a little bit of variety. I have target bullion price (silver didn't really work as well there).
 
Shame everything was processed before I spotted this forum and had a look around. Would have made that switch easier I think.
 
I don't intend to sell in the immediate future, however I may keep an eye on the trade areas in the future if I do happen to pick up work again. I don't have any immediate plans to accumulate more though, if anything it would be allocation switches from other investments.
 
cheers
Sparkie

A wise investor once said something to the effect of: "You know you have too much when you start losing sleep over your investment. In that case, sell down to your "sleeping point" and keep the rest"

Alternatively, buy as much as you want, put it under your mattress and sleep with one eye open. 😆

A wise investor once said something to the effect of: "You know you have too much when you start losing sleep over your investment. In that case, sell down to your "sleeping point" and keep the rest"

So would I be correct to assume that any special bullion coins will also end up at little to nothing more that what an ordinary bullion coin is worth several years down the line?  So a bullion Queens Beast Completer coin will be worse as a pure investment and not make back more than an ordinary bullion Britannia in a few years once sold? 
Probably, but there can be exceptions. Completers may be one of them. It is difficult to guarantee a correct forecast.
If so, then the lesson is only pay the extra premium for the QB completer if you think the fancier design is worth it for the pleasure it gives you when you own it.
Yes.
(Or buy it in a few years when the premium has disappeared - if you can wait that long!  😄)
Also yes.
I do understand though why people buy the proofs and other non-proof designs they are very beautiful.
It's a matter of balance.
Proofs do also have potential for value appreciation.
1989 proof sovereigns and sovereign sets are an example. The Royal Mint failed to sell out its issue limit, but now the sovereigns sell for over £1000.
1989 Sovereign Mintage and Issue Limits
Item Issue Limit Mintage Individual Sovereign 12,500  10,535  Sovereigns in 3 Coin Sets 10,000  7,936  Sovereigns in 4 Coin Sets 5,000  5,000  Total 27,500  23,471 
from https://www.chards.co.uk/1989-gold-sovereign-elizabeth-ii-proof-london/281
At the time, some people didn't want them because they did not have St. George and the Dragon on them!

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. 
Golden Griffin, I share your sentiment. I love the designs and artwork associated with some of the proofs. I have a decent amount in plain bullion which is the main investment. The proofs are more of a hobby that gives me enjoyment and is not something I would easily sell, but it is there for my enjoyment. My son can decide what he wants to do with them when I'm pushing daisies. I would love to have the 2014 as well, but haven't been able to get one. Some day ....

I have generally been very sceptical about most proofs because of the high premium over bullion. Over the last few years I have been buying Britannia's concentrating mostly on lowest premium over spot. I came across a few pre-2013 coins with the variation designs which I found interesting but hard to get. That let me back to proofs and noticed that RM have been bringing out a different proof design every year since 2013. These are mostly beautiful designs, but the prices tend to be very high. Some of it I assume is related to the RM marketing department starting to use highly polished wooden "display" boxes which adds a lot to the cost. (I tend to subscribe to the view "buy the coin not the box").
The plus side is that the mintages are quite low. I do like the coins, but I have a real concern if it makes a good investment. If you try and sell it in a few years time, how easy is it to sell and will you get much over the bullion price?
What advice can those members who have "been there and done that" give me as well as those in the trade. Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
 

I was going to post about this.  It was painful, without spare cash watching all those nice coins go like that.  Lesson learnt there isn't a liquid market for general proofs.  

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. 
Golden Griffin, I share your sentiment. I love the designs and artwork associated with some of the proofs. I have a decent amount in plain bullion which is the main investment. The proofs are more of a hobby that gives me enjoyment and is not something I would easily sell, but it is there for my enjoyment. My son can decide what he wants to do with them when I'm pushing daisies. I would love to have the 2014 as well, but haven't been able to get one. Some day ....

I agree with you the the proofs are expensive at their high premiums.
As I say here, https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/precious-metals-information-and-advice-for-newbies/1008, and have been saying for about 50 years, for bullion investment "My General Advice
Buy at the lowest premium within reason. If you have read most of the above, you will understand what I mean, and why."
If you like the designs, and will enjoy ownng them, then consider buying proofs, but even the recent lower mintage ones may fall in price later, after the current hysteria has faded.
Earlier proof Britannias can be found at not much above bullion premiums, for example: https://www.chards.co.uk/1987-gold-britannia-one-ounce-proof-coin-no-box-or-cert/1886,
also, the Britannia proof sets, for example: https://www.chards.co.uk/1987-gold-britannia-one-ounce-proof-coin-no-box-or-cert/1886
 
 

My experience with beautiful proof Britannia gold coins, boxed sets and very low mintages is that I paid a premium say 20% over spot when I purchased and ended up selling at 97% of spot. I didn't loose money because spot had risen by the premium and a bit more but I was very disappointed that the premium was completely lost. I tried to sell to coin dealers that were advertising the same coins at very high premiums and was being offered proofs at 5% to buy over spot at the time. I couldn't find buyers here either at spot price so in frustration I handed over to HGM just to get rid of them. I kept the empty boxes though as it didn't make any difference to the price but at least the dealers didn't have the box and certificate to double their asking price when reselling. Moral - don't pay too much extra for a proof if you think it will retain its value.

Proof coins are for collectors, who are attracted to low mintages, high quality finishes, beautiful pieces of miniature art and hold it long term.
I'd say that, making a return on a proof coin is lower down the list of priorities for collectors, than it is for investors or flippers.
That's not to say that a collector who holds a proof coin long term and then sells it, wouldn't make a profit and profit wouldn't be on their mind.
There are different variables that would indicate the success of a proof coin...
Design, originality and desirability, the meaning behind the coin, rarity and where it was minted are some of those variables.
I don't have the 2014 gold proof Britannia, but I would want it in my collection.
I started buying bullion and then saw how lovely proof coins were and started collecting proofs.
Would I exchange one of my beautiful, rare 1oz gold proof coins for 4+ oz's of gold bullion?
No, because the Numismatic value is worth more to me, than the gold value.
Hope that makes sense.
Good luck with your quest to find out what you're truly after. 👍😊

Welcome aboard, there's a graded section in the classified sales pages that might tickle your fancy for numi type items, though you see all kinds of different bits and pieces come up, slippery slope 

Hi All, I started stacking gold about 10 years ago and silver more recently. Came across the forum thanks to Backyardbullion and Numistacker. I the past I have mostly bought from Chards and Arkinson's but have recently been looking more widely as I am now selectively expanding into numismatics. There is a lot to learn and hope to benefit from the wealth of knowledge on the forum. It is great to see that members seem to be very generous with their advice and guidance.
I look forward to taking part in the forum and hopefully acquire some quality coins.

Hi All, I started stacking gold about 10 years ago and silver more recently. Came across the forum thanks to Backyardbullion and Numistacker. I the past I have mostly bought from Chards and Arkinson's but have recently been looking more widely as I am now selectively expanding into numismatics. There is a lot to learn and hope to benefit from the wealth of knowledge on the forum. It is great to see that members seem to be very generous with their advice and guidance.
I look forward to taking part in the forum and hopefully acquire some quality coins.

Hi All, I started stacking gold about 10 years ago and silver more recently. Came across the forum thanks to Backyardbullion and Numistacker. I the past I have mostly bought from Chards and Arkinson's but have recently been looking more widely as I am now selectively expanding into numismatics. There is a lot to learn and hope to benefit from the wealth of knowledge on the forum. It is great to see that members seem to be very generous with their advice and guidance.
I look forward to taking part in the forum and hopefully acquire some quality coins.

Hi All, I started stacking gold about 10 years ago and silver more recently. Came across the forum thanks to Backyardbullion and Numistacker. I the past I have mostly bought from Chards and Arkinson's but have recently been looking more widely as I am now selectively expanding into numismatics. There is a lot to learn and hope to benefit from the wealth of knowledge on the forum. It is great to see that members seem to be very generous with their advice and guidance.
I look forward to taking part in the forum and hopefully acquire some quality coins.

Hi All, I started stacking gold about 10 years ago and silver more recently. Came across the forum thanks to Backyardbullion and Numistacker. I the past I have mostly bought from Chards and Arkinson's but have recently been looking more widely as I am now selectively expanding into numismatics. There is a lot to learn and hope to benefit from the wealth of knowledge on the forum. It is great to see that members seem to be very generous with their advice and guidance.
I look forward to taking part in the forum and hopefully acquire some quality coins.