Opinion on Grading

[GoldDiggerDave]

the technology has been around for years to identify individual coins using LiDAR and other methods.  Think about it the technology is already in our phones to recognise our individual faces it’s easy to use this tech to list individual’s coins graded or not.  But for the obvious reasons not everyone  would have their coins and stacks digitally recorded.  (Can you imagine that year where there’s an amnesty for you to get everyone of your coins digitally scanned and assigned to you so the value population and scarcity can be 100% accurate, I very much doubt those saying the populations are inaccurate would be the ones getting their stack scanned) 

The population reports are a guide, indication of how many have been graded,  just like scarcity ratings in marsh how are these 100% accurately recorded they aren’t the for the same reasons, if it’s sales then the same coin could have been sold numerous times and there’s alway the unknown, coins sitting in a vault that’s never been recorded or entered the open market and there some coins that are lost to time or inadvertently destroyed. 

 

I would presume the reports are adjusted over time to reflect anomalies just like the scarcity ratings are adjusted to give a closer representation of the numbers with the information they have at the time. 

 

[Agaupl]

I just see the numbers as a guide and relative against other coins graded by the same company. Even if the graded figures include resubmissions etc it doesn’t really matter to me. 
 

same as I only check NGC not pcgs as well. It’s all just a guide and relative to the coin population as a whole. Sure it could be systematically manipulated.. but I doubt anyone would. Unless I’m missing something. 

[Darr3nG]

Maybe simpler to change the name from population to processed

[refero]

I quite disagree. 
As the market is more and more oriented (obsessed) by the magic number , by the top pop by the + , cameo, star etc etc, its more and more important to guarantee buyers from potential frauds or manipulation. 
Its an “hobby” that requires hundreds or thousands pounds / euros and can be easily considered as an investment too. Knowing that a dealer (just for example) can submit the same coin over and over til he gets what he wants, or knowing that the population report of a specific rare coin is completely messed up its not a good feeling 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

4 hours ago, refero said:

Starting by saying that everyone is free to act freely, i quite dont understand the point in keeping track of “population” of slabbed coins.

a single coin can hypothetically have gone through the process several time, and been awarded with different slab reference every time. Even with the same grade all the time, the finals figures are kind of “fake”.

And that is opening the door to a  misrepresentation of reality (innocent scenario) or to commercial fraud (just imagine how can a top pop be manipulated artificially) 

Imo slabs should have an Anti crack technology (like you cant open crack it without damaging the coin) and only the original ngc - pcgs Whover could safely open it.

A second eventual slab of an already slabbed coin should clearly state it like ms 61 slab number 38373288 previously ms 61 (or whatever) slab number 29282828

 

3 hours ago, SidS said:

I've cracked just about every slabbed coin I've bought out, none of which is reported on the population reports of PCGS or NGC. So I know a few of their coin figures are off.

Then there are those that crack out and do multiple submissions. So I bet most population reports are inaccurate to say the least.

I tried to research some particular coins. Apparently their owner(s) cracked the boxes and sent the certs back, thereby invalidating the cert. However, the coins still appear in the population reports. Coins that were submitted to both NGC and PCGS appear on the population reports of both services.

Don't read too much into population reports. And don't subscribe to what PGCS and NGC say in general. They (according to their census) have graded more tha 30 million US coins each, and for UK coins? About half a million. And the numbers are still lower for coins from other countries. They're still America-centric services, and they primarily focus on American coins.

[GoldDiggerDave]

What I would like as a collector, is coins to be slabbed in the CGC sized slabs (Pokémon  card sized slab)  as this would fit the coin and the COA.  I’d like the COA grading as well,  PF70UC for the coin and a perfect 10 for the COA.  
 

can you imagine the anxiety of getting a PF70UC for the proof sovereign and only a 9.1 for the COA🤣

 

 

[Agaupl]

6 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

What I would like as a collector, is coins to be slabbed in the CGC sized slabs (Pokémon  card sized slab)  as this would fit the coin and the COA.  I’d like the COA grading as well,  PF70UC for the coin and a perfect 10 for the COA.  
 

can you imagine the anxiety of getting a PF70UC for the proof sovereign and only a 9.1 for the COA🤣

 

 

I’m not sure I’d like the COA grading but I would like it included in the slab tbh. Just as a yes/no real/fake type thing. 
 

@refero I don’t see an issue with resubmitting tbh. Coin grading is going to be subjective and the real question of 69/70 is always going to be contested, just as any subjective decision is. The key is in the validity of the grading process and its reproducibility. I can grade any coin at 70 but no one will care. That’s why NGC and PCGS are universally accepted but others aren’t. 
what I would really like from either company is a European base or a peer European competitor, as both are very clearly US orientated and that can only last so long imho. 

[GoldDiggerDave]

@Agaupl you never know mate I’ll send you a CGC Pokémon card you will get hooked on the perfect 10’s

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

29 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

@Agaupl you never know mate I’ll send you a CGC Pokémon card you will get hooked on the perfect 10’s

Does he also need to pay for that?

[GoldDiggerDave]

2 minutes ago, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

Does he also need to pay for that?

Got some freebies 

might get some dollar bills if I’m lucky 

Edited January 11 by GoldDiggerDave

[Spyder]

The problem with having the COA in the slab, what happens to all the three and 4 plus sets. Which coin gets the COA. 

I think a better grading option would be for both sides to get a grade. I bet that there are many coins graded 69 which might have had a 70 on one side

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

The problem with having the COA in the slab, what happens to all the three and 4 plus sets. Which coin gets the COA. 

I think a better grading option would be for both sides to get a grade. I bet that there are many coins graded 69 which might have had a 70 on one side

I like these, you can get Multi coin slabs, only a few sets they will grade like this and the problematic thing with grading a full set is if someone wants a full top  grade set and if one coin out of the batch is not up to grade then it could be difficult, plus it makes it impossible to split.   

I'm trying to get a silver multi slab set for my collection 

 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

2 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I like these, you can get Multi coin slabs, only a few sets they will grade like this and the problematic thing with grading a full set is if someone wants a full top  grade set and if one coin out of the batch is not up to grade then it could be difficult, plus it makes it impossible to split.   

I'm trying to get a silver multi slab set for my collection 

 

Could work nicely for the old sovereign sets. 1887, 1893, 1902, etc

Also you could send a set of graded PF70 and ask them to re-holder

Edited January 11 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[GoldDiggerDave]

3 minutes ago, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

Could work nicely for the old sovereign sets. 1887, 1893, 1902, etc

Also you could send a set of graded PF70 and ask them to re-holder

Absolutely I'm a huge fan of the 1902 matt proof set it would be a nice way to present the set in a multi holder.  

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

1 minute ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Absolutely I'm a huge fan of the 1902 matt proof set it would be a nice way to present the set in a multi holder.  

So am I. But they all grade rather low. And I think for a reason, too. Their matt surface seems finer than the American matts of the same period and modern matts like the sotd, and a simple rinse with water or rubbing with velvet (in which they were all housed) could strip them of the original surface.

[Agaupl]

11 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I like these, you can get Multi coin slabs, only a few sets they will grade like this and the problematic thing with grading a full set is if someone wants a full top  grade set and if one coin out of the batch is not up to grade then it could be difficult, plus it makes it impossible to split.   

I'm trying to get a silver multi slab set for my collection 

 

They look nice. What sets will they put in a multi slab 

[GoldDiggerDave]

4 hours ago, Agaupl said:

They look nice. What sets will they put in a multi slab 

Just eagles and pandas by the looks of it.

[Orpster]

On 10/01/2024 at 11:16, Sovhead said:

That’s incredible.

They’re very similar condition wise aren’t they?

Very much so yes, twins

 

[Sovhead]

On 12/01/2024 at 08:57, Orpster said:

Very much so yes, twins

 

Now in America for grading see what it gets 👍🏻

[SilverJacks]

On 22/01/2024 at 17:28, Sovhead said:

Now in America for grading see what it gets 👍🏻

Hi mate. Any news on your coins? Can you tell the submission status?

My last submission was surprisingly quick (around 5/6 weeks last summer). This time, seems really slow. Almost 4 weeks and it still at "Scheduled for Grading". I was hoping they'd improved their turnaround times, and maybe they have, but it seems really slow so far...

[Sovhead]

4 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Hi mate. Any news on your coins? Can you tell the submission status?

My last submission was surprisingly quick (around 5/6 weeks last summer). This time, seems really slow. Almost 4 weeks and it still at "Scheduled for Grading". I was hoping they'd improved their turnaround times, and maybe they have, but it seems really slow so far...

Awaiting grading mate, sometimes it happens pretty quickly other times it depends on how busy they are I’m in no rush and Dave has kept me up to date with everything he’s been exemplary in keeping me informed of costs, timeframe and with updates.

[SilverJacks]

Yes they are sometimes held at NGC UK for a few weeks before even shipping to US.

A dedicated grading thread would be useful imo

[GoldDiggerDave]

Grading a coin is exciting at the start with a whole lot of nothing in between and either  disappoint or  jubilation the end.  

There has been some slower submissions over the Christmas holidays.  I've currently got  9 separate subs that all have gone in at the same time they are all moving at different speeds, some are in grading and encapsulation 3 weeks before others and they all hit the US all at the same time.     The fastest usually is ancient coins for some reason.   

The other issue you can get, the coins are sent to the US in bonded batches and they have to come back into the UK in the same batch.....Not just your coins there may be hundreds or others submissions......If theres a hold up with one it effect the entire batch in terms of time. 

If anyone else want to know about grading just ask I'm happy to express my views and I don't BS anyone.  I do regularly speak to the guy in person at the NGC so if theres any questions I don't know I'm happy to ask them.  

 

  

 

[dicker]

On 11/01/2024 at 20:03, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

 

I tried to research some particular coins. Apparently their owner(s) cracked the boxes and sent the certs back, thereby invalidating the cert. However, the coins still appear in the population reports. Coins that were submitted to both NGC and PCGS appear on the population reports of both services.

Don't read too much into population reports. And don't subscribe to what PGCS and NGC say in general. They (according to their census) have graded more tha 30 million US coins each, and for UK coins? About half a million. And the numbers are still lower for coins from other countries. They're still America-centric services, and they primarily focus on American coins.

I sort of agree and disagree. The population certs are really useful - and you are right that some people crack coins out and send them for grading again in hope of a better grade.

For me the numbers are all about “sensitivity” if 1000 coins have been graded at MS60 and 2 at MS68 I would be super cautious about the lower numbers.  They are more “sensitive” to re grading.  I use the pop numbers for Morgan Dollar buying - just to get a sense if the books are right!

 

all the best

Dicker

 

[Sovhead]

On 09/01/2024 at 21:44, Sovhead said:

I’ve 2 Vic sovs and I’m in 2 minds about getting them graded so I’d like to hear what members think pics below.

Got a ms61 and an ms63 Very Happy with that 👍🏻