Famous last words

[sixgun]

26 minutes ago, Roy said:

I have physical issues (🥸)

Wow that is an admission and a half. Is it just length or girth as well?

[Roy]

It's the varicose veins that stand out, when it stands up 🤥

[Abyss]

A side note spoken with someone recently had a single 250 gram gold bar, 4 x 50 gram gold bars that were all stolen in a burglary. Took this individual a long time to accumulate that level of Gold (16 oz) had contents insurance but it did not cover and is completely out of pocket but subsequently had several more breaks ins into his house. Buying physical Gold be very conscientious of where you are going to be storing it for long term safety and security of the metal and your immediate family.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

2 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

Huh?

Give a detailed picture of what is in the house to strangers who save it in a database?

The whole idea is you don't own it if you don't hold it.

If every ****&Harry knows what is where, why risk storing anything at home? Who else can access this database? Typically anybody with an account in the sysadmin group on the server. And any backup server. Or any remote server. what about next year, when the data will be hosted with another company, who bid even lower than the previous one? Or the 'cloud' admins?  And let's not get started with 'authorities' who may decide to grab for the greater good.

Wow..

I understand your points and I do agree but the insurance company being aware of what I own is a lesser evil to me than it not being insured. I would honestly be too scared to leave the house if my stuff wasn't insured, it's literally equivalent to cash. I do both hold it and own it my friend. If SHTF and gold/silver become necessities, I would be sharing mine with family. That's one of the main reasons why I stack - to help family. So they may as well be in custody of some of my stack if I would give it to them anyway

I live in Northern Ireland and the laws here are slightly different. There are no bailiffs or debt collectors coming to your door - that is illegal, or perhaps more accurately was made illegal due to threats and intimidation from paramilitaries. At least they're good for something 😂. Nobody is coming to my door to seize my assets of any description. If they did it wouldn't just be me they had to answer to. I also own a shotgun, so, yea, good luck with that Mr. Burglar or Mr. Communist

As for the value of the items, the gold and silver are not the most valuable items in my home. The other items are also insured like artworks, piano, antique furniture and heirlooms. Why would I freak out about declaring precious metals and not be equally concerned about the other items being stolen or seized?

If you use deposit boxes or communal vaults the folks in charge know what you've got. In the case of deposit boxes the companies are not liable for any losses, which staggers me, and that's why you need insurance. If the bank employees know what you've got and have access to that box they can steal your stuff with impunity. Six of one, half a dozen of the other IMHO (between using deposit boxes or storing at home)

Edited December 15, 2023 by HonestMoneyGoldSilver

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

It's the varicose veins that stand out, when it stands up 🤥

Do you need to wear a support stocking?

[sixgun]

42 minutes ago, Abyss said:

A side note spoken with someone recently had a single 250 gram gold bar, 4 x 50 gram gold bars that were all stolen in a burglary. Took this individual a long time to accumulate that level of Gold (16 oz) had contents insurance but it did not cover and is completely out of pocket but subsequently had several more breaks ins into his house. Buying physical Gold be very conscientious of where you are going to be storing it for long term safety and security of the metal and your immediate family.

The guy must have been absolutely gutted.
i remember there were a few posts about a guy in Hull i think it was, he was blabbing on Facebook about how much precious metal he had. Where he lived was not unknown and a couple of guys came round to pay him a visit. They roughed him up and got the key to his very visible safe and made off with his treasure. 

So the message is tell no-one you have a stash. If you do have a stash, do not have a very visible safe. That the theives got a king's ransome in gold would guarantee they and others would pay him another visit and another on the off chance they didn't find all the loot or he got some more. 

[JohnA1]

18 minutes ago, sixgun said:

...So the message is tell no-one you have a stash. If you do have a stash, do not have a very visible safe. ..

Security by obscurity. 

People talk - women talk, children talk, drunk friends talk. If they know, they'll talk.

Nobody's gonna go to great lengths to find what they don't know is there. Low profile, think like a burglar. A fancy car in the driveway attracts (unwanted) attention for example.

A 'decoy' safe may also not be a bad idea. Stuff it with some low value/fakes and some cash. It'll keep them happy if push comes to shove and stop digging further..

[Booky586]

@Roy don't be bound by physical, you can play the paper markets (especially silver) without limit!

[Bigmarc]

Do insurance companies share the data? I just assumed it was private, but now has me thinking considering everything website you visit does. 

[dicker]

1 hour ago, Bigmarc said:

Do insurance companies share the data? I just assumed it was private, but now has me thinking considering everything website you visit does. 

They don’t.  But as I have mentioned a couple of times before, I have a friend who works in art who suggests that there is a correlation between art insurance and theft….for private individuals.  

[JohnA1]

3 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Do insurance companies share the data? I just assumed it was private, but now has me thinking considering everything website you visit does. 

You'd need an insider to give you a definitive answer.

Someone who's signed a pile of Non-Disclosure Agreements beforehand. Good luck with that.

 

You'd also need to wonder why you have to agree in advance to terms where they can refuse/delay paying out in case of suspected fraud - and whether cross-referencing databases can be part of said checks. (is there any other way?🧐)

it's all legal - i.e. according to the contract signed by both parties..

[Chronos]

3 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Do insurance companies share the data? I just assumed it was private, but now has me thinking considering everything website you visit does. 

Assume that they do ...

[Petra]

Due to the level of fraud and attempted fraud the different companies must share information. If you’re using an insurance company then not an issue, you’ve probably gone on a compare site or done something similar before getting your cover, so loads of people will have your information 🤔😮

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

3 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

You'd need an insider to give you a definitive answer.

Someone who's signed a pile of Non-Disclosure Agreements beforehand. Good luck with that.

 

You'd also need to wonder why you have to agree in advance to terms where they can refuse/delay paying out in case of suspected fraud - and whether cross-referencing databases can be part of said checks. (is there any other way?🧐)

it's all legal - i.e. according to the contract signed by both parties..

Many moons ago I worked at the HQ of a banking group. This was illegal, I just didn't know it, but I looked up the financial records of just about everyone I knew! If they were part of that banking group I had access to more info than I could read. If they weren't part of the banking group I still had a plethora of info. If you tried to do that today you would be discovered by the keyloggers and security systems. You might still have access to info you don't strictly need in banks but as soon as you accessed that info it would trigger all sorts of automated systems. If you worked with security and IT who were corrupt at an insurance company then it wouldn't be a problem, you could browse and search at your leisure. If you tried to do it by yourself you'd end up in prison

I meant to say yesterday about seizures of gold. We get obsessed with the USA and FDR but there has never been a gold seizure in the UK. We don't have a Presidential system and it would take an act of Parliament to seize our gold. I'm not saying they can't steal our gold but we would have a lot of warning before they did, time enough to book that boating trip 😁

 

 

[JohnA1]

1 hour ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Many moons ago I worked at the HQ of a banking group. This was illegal, I just didn't know it, but I looked up the financial records of just about everyone I knew!....

I meant to say yesterday about seizures of gold. We get obsessed with the USA and FDR but there has never been a gold seizure in the UK. ...

 

Now they've wised up and have you go through online 'training' courses as a prerequisite and once you pass the (joke of a) course you tick that you understood and agree. This is a contract, which later can be used to get you sacked for 'breach of trust'. You get zero compensation, and if they feel like it they can prosecute you for millions - they won't do it in real life due to the unwanted publicity, these events are all hushed up.

NDAs are another level for anything half-serious

 

As for gold seizure in the UK, I wouldn't be so absolute.

Also search at this thread regarding existing UK legislation regarding UK minted gold/silver coins. They belong to the Crown Corporation, as they made them. They can be called in any time they see fit.

Yes, 'called in'

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by JohnA1

[sixgun]

3 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

time enough to book that boating trip 😁

Oh no - more tragic boating accidents.

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, JohnA1 said:

As for gold seizure in the UK, I wouldn't be so absolute.

i was aware there were restrictions on what gold coins and how many you could own into the 1960's but wasn't aware of this confescation. They kept that one quiet - good find. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by sixgun

[JohnA1]

Another guy actually found it,  youtuber 'parallel systems'

Good find indeed - the credit is his.

I wasn't exactly surprised, since according to the (kinda hidden) "laws of commerce" whoever makes something is the ultimate owner. And the CGT exemption just *had* to have another side. Which it does..

[sixgun]

14 minutes ago, JohnA1 said:

Another guy actually found it,  youtuber 'parallel systems'

Good find indeed - the credit is his.

I wasn't exactly surprised, since according to the (kinda hidden) "laws of commerce" whoever makes something is the ultimate owner. And the CGT exemption just *had* to have another side. Which it does..

I knew all the bank notes belong to the bank.
It is illegal to melt down UK coins in the various jurisdications in the UK. Why would that be if it were your property?
If you don't pay the road tax they take the car and may crush it. How can they destroy your property if it is yours?

Clearly the coins and notes are not ours - we are just using them. Once you register a car you hand over property rights.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

2 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

Now they've wised up and have you go through online 'training' courses as a prerequisite and once you pass the (joke of a) course you tick that you understood and agree. This is a contract, which later can be used to get you sacked for 'breach of trust'. You get zero compensation, and if they feel like it they can prosecute you for millions - they won't do it in real life due to the unwanted publicity, these events are all hushed up.

NDAs are another level for anything half-serious

 

As for gold seizure in the UK, I wouldn't be so absolute.

Also search at this thread regarding existing UK legislation regarding UK minted gold/silver coins. They belong to the Crown Corporation, as they made them. They can be called in any time they see fit.

Yes, 'called in'

 

 

 

I had this discussion before and even if they want to seize gold, whom are they seizing it from? The general population? Only 1% own physical metals and the majority of those are middle class and upper class persons, including government ministers and their donors. It's highly unlikely they will decide to steal their own gold

[JohnA1]

26 minutes ago, sixgun said:

I knew all the bank notes belong to the bank.
It is illegal to melt down UK coins in the various jurisdications in the UK. Why would that be if it were your property?
If you don't pay the road tax they take the car and may crush it. How can they destroy your property if it is yours?

Clearly the coins and notes are not ours - we are just using them. Once you register a car you hand over property rights.

Of course the bank notes belong to the central bank (private corp), they even have the signature of the person making the promise to pay (doesn't mention specie anymore though!)

Illegal to melt the coins - yep, guess how come there are such restrictions of use

Road tax, MoT etc...the car is owned by the DVLA of course, hence they stipulate whatever terms they choose. The V5 at the very top says it all: "this is not proof of ownership". The licence plates are also a dead giveaway: you operate under a licence. Everything is commercial, hidden behind a ridiculous legalese language masquerading as english, yet using a different dictionary to what the plebs assume. It's all out there if one cares to look. Black's Law dictionary is not secret.

[JohnA1]

The world is full of people with degrees (Master's, PhDs, whatever) who are illiterate for all practical purposes.

They cannot write or read a simple letter in English (but they text/message obsessively and yap over the phone, agreeing to contracts without realising it)

They don't even know the 'four corners' rule

Hence they fill in forms, sign in boxes, and assume different fonts are all part of the same document. If only they knew how the wool is being pulled over their eyes..

[MonkeysUncle]

On 15/12/2023 at 22:30, JohnA1 said:

Nobody's gonna go to great lengths to find what they don't know is there. Low profile, think like a burglar. A fancy car in the driveway attracts (unwanted) attention for example.

Heck yes, I get sick of trying to educate clients. A Porsche or other high end motor out the front attracts attention. Drive a mainstream motor and blend in with the crowd. 

[JohnA1]

So according to this chatty GPT fella,

"... In September 1939, individuals were required to report their gold holdings to authorities, and further regulations were implemented in 1940 which prohibited most transactions involving gold bullion.

These restrictions on gold ownership were primarily aimed at controlling the flow of capital and preventing people from hoarding valuable assets during wartime. However, after the war, most of these restrictions were lifted, although some limited controls remained in place until the late 1970s.."

The so-called authorities labelled gold bullion owners "hoarders" and demanded the loot to be used for UK corporation's "national interest".  Which meant sending it to their chums in the USA in exchange for Sherman tanks etc - i.e. from your basement to Fort Knox, and from there who knows where it is now. 

Back then, they used the patriotic card to rip off the gullible suckers who volunteered..

American gangsters did the same, (ab)using the 'trading with the enemy' legislation they passed during WW1.

Crafty parasites eh

[stefffana]

7 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

The world is full of people with degrees (Master's, PhDs, whatever) who are illiterate for all practical purposes.

They cannot write or read a simple letter in English (but they text/message obsessively and yap over the phone, agreeing to contracts without realising it)

They don't even know the 'four corners' rule

Hence they fill in forms, sign in boxes, and assume different fonts are all part of the same document. If only they knew how the wool is being pulled over their eyes..

I agree with you somehow.

In real life, If you not agree with something written in that form, the chances to be changed that contract are very close to 0. 

You can choose only to sign or not.

But everyone need for living the minimum of: one debit card, one passport, one driving licence/V5 form, one tenancy agreement/ownership contract, council tax, etc. All of these forms are standard and can not be changed. If not signing, you are a pariah of society.

We need only to choose the smallest evil.