My Bank Have Put a Block on My Account due to a PM Bank Transfer Payment

[ArgentSmith]

In other words they just make up the rules as they go along. This country is becoming a Lawless cess pit.

[JohnA1]

4 hours ago, ZRPMs said:

...Perhaps, They are trying to say in this instance it belongs to them. In a twisted way I suppose they could argue that once deposited it became the banks property and I only had a call on it. If they deemed that they didn't want to release it as in their opinion I didn't align with their business model then they don't have to release the cheque.

Precisely.

It is not twisted at all, it is according to the terms of engagement (that you've agreed in advance when you opened the account).

The deposit is not yours, it is theirs. You are just an unsecured creditor. (which is why they can bail in)

The cheque is not yours, it is theirs. Remember, you filled in something they issued and sent to you.

In fact even if you don't deposit the cash, the banknotes aren't yours even then! They belong to the BoE that issued them. You are just allowed to use them (exchanging payment promises!) at a price. They can cancel them anytime they wish.

Yep.

What is twisted is how they quietly rigged the share/bond ownership system so that any such products you think you own someone else has first dibs (they have been secretly hypothycated in effect). The Great Taking goes into depth, got a link on another post.

....back to PMs that are nobody's liability..😇

Edited September 23, 2023 by JohnA1

[Bratnia]

3 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

Precisely.

It is not twisted at all, it is according to the terms of engagement (that you've agreed in advance when you opened the account).

The deposit is not yours, it is theirs. You are just an unsecured creditor. (which is why they can bail in)

The cheque is not yours, it is theirs. Remember, you filled in something they issued and sent to you.

In fact even if you don't deposit the cash, the banknotes aren't yours even then! They belong to the BoE that issued them. You are just allowed to use them (exchanging payment promises!) at a price. They can cancel them anytime they wish.

Yep.

What is twisted is how they quietly rigged the share/bond ownership system so that any such products you think you own someone else has first dibs (they have been secretly hypothycated in effect). The Great Taking goes into depth, got a link on another post.

....back to PMs that are nobody's liability..😇

So if your capital is a loan, then ... borrowing (reverse psychology)

Some actually do that in practice, 10% in 10x leveraged stock (Options), 90% 'safe' to reduce counter-party risk right down. Zvi Bodie as one example.

For passing on capital that might otherwise be taxed, such as to their son, the son paints a few broad brush strokes onto some canvas and dad buys it as a proclaimed gifted artwork for a 7 digit sum (fundamental concept, albeit in practice via a more obscure method).

Banks and cash ... are just for immediate spending, 'current' account (short term income/spending).

[JohnA1]

23 minutes ago, Bratnia said:

..

For passing on capital that might otherwise be taxed, such as to their son, the son paints a few broad brush strokes onto some canvas and dad buys it as a proclaimed gifted artwork for a 7 digit sum (fundamental concept, albeit in practice via a more obscure method)..

🧐

[Bratnia]

4 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

🧐

For reference, I just see your reply as a square (vertical rectangle) i.e. the face with a monocle unicode value doesn't show.

[Earthmetal]

The only currency that is ownable money are coins, and the only coins with an intrinsic value similar to face value are 50p, pre 2010 5p & 10p, and pre1992 2p &1p. All the rest is Monopoly money. 

[Bratnia]

https://archive.ph/2023.09.22-142035/https://www.ft.com/content/69b297ae-7e64-4a6a-ac32-25afd699f158

Quote

HM Revenue & Customs sent nearly a third more “nudge” letters to holders of overseas assets in the tax year to April compared with the previous year, as it revived a drive to crack down on tax avoidance.

Quote

This international exchange of data, developed by the OECD and known as the Common Reporting Standard, has been approved by 110 countries. Participants include historically popular tax havens such as Switzerland, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands.

HMRC uses algorithms to trawl data looking for anomalies

Quote

HMRC said: “We have a strong track record in tackling offshore non-compliance. We have secured around £526mn from offshore initiatives since 2019, demonstrating our commitment to tackling all forms of non-compliance and ensuring everyone pays their share of tax.”

Fair taxes are reasonable. HMRC however has a history of punitive taxation at times, 1968 for instance where a retrospective taxation pushed higher rate taxation up to 130% (David Bowie, Rolling Stones ...etc. decided to self exile due to such 'confiscations').

You can almost feel the groundwork being prepared for such a period of punitive taxation again. Lock-down, and then hit. Part of more cases of the likes of gold purchases resulting in transactions being blocked/bank accounts closed is likely with that in mind.

It may become increasingly difficult to buy/sell physical gold as that momentum builds. Tories prepare the lock-down, Labour (after next General Election) do the confiscation.

The rich as ever will side step such practices. Assets that generate no regular income flows that can be tracked; Dispose of assets via private sales (buy a painting from another for a ludicrous amount, such that when they die their estate includes a asset that is valued at much less than the price paid, or that is re-sold at a massive capital loss to offset against capital gains elsewhere) ...etc.

We're entering a era where once again primary focus turns to return-of-money rather than return-on-money. I believe we're already at a point where the public sector as funded by the private sector, has the public sector being larger than the private sector (unsustainable).

See also https://www.fusionconsult.co.uk/what-is-hmrcs-connect-computer-system-and-how-can-it-help-with-tax-compliance/ (HMRC's CONNECT system)

Quote

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, records that can be accessed include:

•     Tax returns (including VAT, PAYE, income tax and corporation tax returns).
•     Bank accounts and pensions.
•     Online social networking such as Facebook and Instagram.
•     Credit reference agencies.
•     Amazon, eBay, Gumtree and similar sales websites.
•     Credit and debit card accounts.
•     Online payment providers such as PayPal.
•     Travel information including flights and insurance
•     Government agencies such as Companies House, the Land Registry and the Border Agency.
•     Foreign tax jurisdictions (including treaties and automatic exchange agreements) and the common reporting standard.
•     Property websites such as Zoopla and Rightmove.
•     Google Street View.
•     Council tax records.
•     DVLA records.
•     DWP records.
•     Electoral roll.
•     Insurance companies.
•     Charities Commission.

HMRC can now charge a penalty of up to 110% of the outstanding tax for non-disclosure.

 

[SidS]

Ever felt bent over a barrel? - or so the saying goes.

Which begs the question: How long till they charge you rent, minus tax, for your time bent over the said barrel whilst they shaft you?

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by SidS

[Sharron]

BIG PROBLEMS ALL AROUND.... n old fashioned Cheque book could be the answer,but that Comes with alot of TRUST!!!🫣

[Bratnia]

14 hours ago, Sharron said:

BIG PROBLEMS ALL AROUND.... n old fashioned Cheque book could be the answer,but that Comes with alot of TRUST!!!🫣

???

My bank account still has cheque books, I haven't written one for years though, but believe if I request another booklet of cheques if/when I use my current ones up that they'll issue another. How might that be a answer though?

[Earthmetal]

I assume because when you send someone a cheque it is cashed not blocked.

[JohnA1]

 

9 hours ago, Earthmetal said:

I assume because when you send someone a cheque it is cashed not blocked.

Beware, clearing a check sometimes can take indeterminate length of time

People had 'money' taken out of their accounts many weeks after they had cached a check, which was claimed to have been no good. You'd think WTF, but it is all in the small print

Edited October 8, 2023 by JohnA1

[Bigmarc]

Anyone with metro bank? Is it time to get my money out? 

[BackyardBullion]

6 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Anyone with metro bank? Is it time to get my money out? 

I emptied a savings account I had. Nothing big and would have been more than covered with FSCS protection but the hassle of going through that process doesn't fill me with any excitement.

I also have switched providers of a safety deposit box for similar situation.

[Gruff]

Banks have been teetering on the edge for years, and the can has been kicked down the road each and every time. They're on the precipice again, will there be yet another bail out/bail in? 
I've been saying this for years when I worked in Financial services and could see how the banks were operating. Same pre-2008 shenanigans with different names...

We all need to have some cash on hand, PMs safe where we can access them and limit the interaction with card use. When the banks blow, card transactions will get clubbed. They'll stop people accessing their deposits via that. The same with withdrawing cash. There will be limits placed on that too.

[Bigmarc]

8 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I emptied a savings account I had. Nothing big and would have been more than covered with FSCS protection but the hassle of going through that process doesn't fill me with any excitement.

I also have switched providers of a safety deposit box for similar situation.

Shame really, probably the best bank I have. Hopefully they will get bought out. 

[HerefordBullyun]

5 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Shame really, probably the best bank I have. Hopefully they will get bought out. 

They got offered to be but declined the offer.

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

3 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Anyone with metro bank? Is it time to get my money out? 

Highly unlikely as their entire deposit was something around £30b, and will be easily absorbed by big banks if they fail to secure the reported £600m which isn't even that big a sum for organisations on that scale. That said, it is reported in FT that both HSBC and JPM have considered and given up their bids due to extra money they have to put in. But ist's nothing to the scale of UBS or even the US regionals.

[JamesH]

Another ballache of a morning thanks to Nationwides anti fraud team blocking my account on a precious metal spend. This time around an existing business I’d dealt with before but with new bank account details. To make it worse they’re asking about transactions I then can’t see as they’d blocked access to my online banking/app. I genuinely believe it’s going to continue getting even harder to buy PM’s on a peer to peer basis

[SovereignBull]

5 minutes ago, JamesH said:

Another ballache of a morning thanks to Nationwides anti fraud team blocking my account on a precious metal spend. This time around an existing business I’d dealt with before but with new bank account details. To make it worse they’re asking about transactions I then can’t see as they’d blocked access to my online banking/app. I genuinely believe it’s going to continue getting even harder to buy PM’s on a peer to peer basis

I’m waiting for this to happen! It won’t be long till it gets flagged!

[JohnA1]

51 minutes ago, JamesH said:

I genuinely believe it’s going to continue getting even harder to buy PM’s on a peer to peer basis

They're throwing roadblocks to stop funds exiting their closed system - which they can freeze and confiscate any time they choose..

[RunicMetals]

28 minutes ago, JamesH said:

Another ballache of a morning thanks to Nationwides anti fraud team blocking my account on a precious metal spend. This time around an existing business I’d dealt with before but with new bank account details. To make it worse they’re asking about transactions I then can’t see as they’d blocked access to my online banking/app. I genuinely believe it’s going to continue getting even harder to buy PM’s on a peer to peer basis

The same situation happened to me with Halifax. They asked various privacy invasive questions like "what is the purpose of this transaction" and when it became clear that I wasn't going to answer such questions (because it's none of their business what I use 'my' money for), they eventually cancelled the payment and I had to do it with a different bank which worked fine.

I'm still quite early in my stacking journey and something like this could make some new stackers want to quit, which is no doubt the intention. But in my mind it makes it even clearer why getting assets outside of the banks' system of control is so important.

[Agaupl]

6 hours ago, JamesH said:

Another ballache of a morning thanks to Nationwides anti fraud team blocking my account on a precious metal spend. This time around an existing business I’d dealt with before but with new bank account details. To make it worse they’re asking about transactions I then can’t see as they’d blocked access to my online banking/app. I genuinely believe it’s going to continue getting even harder to buy PM’s on a peer to peer basis

I’m with nationwide and this has happened to me several times. Twice during big time sensitive releases. Unfortunately as I’m non UK resident it’s a pain to change banks. 

[AOB]

I’m not sure about others, but I tend to use Chase to make my PM transactions - they are very good, haven’t had any issues with them so far.

Only one transaction, didn’t send instantly… took few minutes though by the time I messaged them on the app and exiting the chat, the payment had been processed.

oh and I never reference anything to do with PM’s, usernames/ invoice references. That’s more for my reference, banks don’t have right to know what I’m spending my money on!!

No doubt these control tactics will continue and be more invasive as time goes on🤦🏻‍♂️

 

[JohnA1]