Different color of same year sovereign

[Von]

Hello, looking at these coin, i have a doubt and im a little worried, because both have diameter/weight/thickness in the specific, but even if of the same type and year, they show different color: one the usual pink/red one, the other a bright yellow.

 

Opinions?

 

thanks and sorry for my bad English…

Edited April 15, 2023 by Von

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

While sovereigns of the same year can be oxidised to different extents (copper in 22k gold can develop brown spots or layers, hence darker), the coin on the right as shown seems rather off. I think it's worth having the metal composition tested.

[Von]

Ok… honestly i have always payed attention at diameter/thickness and weight, but seeing them now make me question myself about colour. 
 

a friend if mine noticed the same on some krugs he have. 

[modofantasma]

If a coin is cleaned or polished it can look a different colour too

[Von]

I thought also that but my doubt is that polishing a sovereign it have to be yellow as right coin or if have to become shiny but a reddish shine. 
 

My little stack is in a bank box so can’t compare the others but im getting paranoid xd

[Spyder]

The outer rim on the left coin also looks thicker. 

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

...the coin on the right as shown seems rather off. I think it's worth having the metal composition tested.

I agree.  The one on the right seems to have less detail especially on the reverse - but is this due to the lighting?

The cape on the right hand coin seems to have a lot less detail than the one on the left, as does the dragon's claw, and the top of the helmet.  There seem to be differences between the gaps between (1) the horse's foot and the dragon's head, and (2) the horse's foot and the broken spear in the dragon.  The lines on the horse's neck seem to be different distances.  The final thing I've noticed is the lack of detail between St George and the back of the horse's neck on the right coin.

I would say they seem to be different dies at least!

[Von]

Consider bad pictures taken with an iphone and the fact the right one shine under light.

 

i post another comparison between two different coins, and not of same year,on the right a “shining one”, but   in this case the center is bright and shining, the border where is the writing is less shining with what it look like mint luster, like the left one.

 

[Zhorro]

3 minutes ago, Von said:

Consider bad pictures taken with an iphone and the fact the right one shine under light.

 

i post another comparison between two different coins, and not of same year,on the right a “shining one”, but   in this case the center is bright and shining, the border where is the writing is less shining with what it look like mint luster, like the left one.

 

So, why not show a picture of the original two coins but in swapped positions? This would then show the impact of lighting.

[Von]

Even changing positions the darker coun will always look different because details have more contrast, shining one not. Like make a picture of a oxidated silver coin near a fresh mint one. 

But returning at color issue, any here noticed this thing on their sovereign or krug?

Or tried polishing them? 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

1 minute ago, Von said:

Even changing positions the darker coun will always look different because details have more contrast, shining one not. Like make a picture of a oxidated silver coin near a fresh mint one. 

But returning at color issue, any here noticed this thing on their sovereign or krug?

Or tried polishing them? 

I have cleaned sovereigns. In fact I clean all my bullion sovereigns (don't do this to proof or key dates etc.) Usually this makes the colour more homogenous, i.e. on a "dirty" coin there is darker bits around the letters, and post-cleaning the colour becomes the same everywhere. This should not change the coin to greenish yellow though.

You said fresh mint silver coins are shinier. In this case "fresh" sovereigns should have this foggy lustre (the cartwheel reflection) that spins on the coin when you change viewing angle, and therefore not very reflective.

Some mentioned that cleaning changes reflection. The way I clean them is that I soak the coins in a bowl covered by aluminium foil with hot baking soda solution. This removes oxides without scratching the coins. Sometimes you could see people cleaning using jewellery polishing cloths, that removes the lustre  from the surface but should not change colour dramatically either.

I am aware proof versions of Gillick sovereigns exist, but genuine samples cost 5 digits so probably not.

 

[Von]

No, not for sure, come from an old jeweler of my city. 
For polishing i mean using a cloth like cape cod or similar. 
 

Honestly considering dimension and weight i think its  gold anyway, and in a percentage near or equal of a non shining one, but i still want understand better the thing and understand if its a “fake” ir not.

I own no krug, but as said a friend of mine noticed the same thing. But like me, he bought aniway after weight/dimension check.

 

 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

3 minutes ago, Von said:

No, not for sure, come from an old jeweler of my city. 
For polishing i mean using a cloth like cape cod or similar. 
 

Honestly considering dimension and weight i think its  gold anyway, and in a percentage near or equal of a non shining one, but i still want understand better the thing and understand if its a “fake” ir not.

I own no krug, but as said a friend of mine noticed the same thing. But like me, he bought aniway after weight/dimension check.

 

 

I've used cape cod. It removes the lustre but doesn't change colour.

There have been fake sovereigns made for jewelleries. As long as they're gold and you haven't paid extra for their numismatic value then it's fine. There were also fake sovereigns in the middle east all having the same amounts of gold, if not more, as the gold pound was a more trusted currency than many of their own. The gold sovereigns were gradually replaced with the paper dollar, and today that might be reversed. Things go round and round and that's history.

[Von]

Yes i read about that, but I thought it happened with old version sovereign only. I bought them bow and then at weight, no special added value.

 

Maybe i can ask at some UK big dealer? Maybe they see many of coins and can tell me their opinion, if they see them etc…

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

35 minutes ago, Von said:

Yes i read about that, but I thought it happened with old version sovereign only. I bought them bow and then at weight, no special added value.

 

Maybe i can ask at some UK big dealer? Maybe they see many of coins and can tell me their opinion, if they see them etc…

I believe Lawrence at Chards is an expert on sovereigns. He's also on the forum but I haven't seen him in a while.

Edited April 15, 2023 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[Tipsmart]

A bit strange? The one on the left looks identical to mine of the same year. Hard to say if the other one is a fake, but it doesn't seem to have the same level of detail? Maybe it could be a 24k copy, hence the colour? 

[Spyder]

@LawrenceChard what do think of these Gillicks?

[SidS]

The one on the right looks cleaned to me. It can mess up how the light reflects from the coin's surface making it look different.

[Von]

Is strange because some shining coin like 1982 ones are shining, but still remain pink reddish.

 

i ask myself also if some coin can have silver in the alloy…

 

@LaurenceChard if you want give an opinion, its welcome. I remember your scientific old thread about krugerrands.

 

@LawrenceChard miswrote sorry

Edited April 16, 2023 by Von

[Britannia47]

4 hours ago, Von said:

Is strange because some shining coin like 1982 ones are shining, but still remain pink reddish.

 

i ask myself also if some coin can have silver in the alloy…

 

@LaurenceChard if you want give an opinion, its welcome. I remember your scientific old thread about krugerrands.

 

@LawrenceChard miswrote sorry

The colour difference of your 2 sovereigns is a mystery, but I believe neither is a fake. Take your pick of the reasons already suggested.

I have not known any ‘Gillick’ to be anything but golden, and have never seen one a pink reddish colour.

L.C. Seems to be on a break at present and not available….. Rumour has it that he’s been arrested somewhere in the Alps for skiing in his underpants!!😯

Here’s 2 1958 Gillicks sporting their normal colour.

 

[Dankanugget]

I have two of the same year with a colour difference. I posted it some time ago.

[Midasfrog]

Removed from a sovereign mount ( has some marks on the rim )and polished by the gold smith . If you need any more let me know 😂

[Von]

8 minutes ago, Midasfrog said:

Removed from a sovereign mount ( has some marks on the rim )and polished by the gold smith . If you need any more let me know 😂

Don’t think mounted, but I suspect jewelry polished them hard… but idk if you take a normal sovereign and polish it heavy, it will be like mine or a shining-pink/reddish one.

At least i think its gold, my ancient Victorian sovereign scale say that xd

 

coming from coin collecting and military medals collecting i am very paranoid on everything that is not textbook…

[dicker]

Better pics would help but I would say its genuine from the info available.

I have one Gillick that is really grey - presumably from some sort of environmental pollution.  

[Britannia47]

There are bound to be variations in colour owing to external influences over time, Gillicks being around  65 years old. I like Dickers suggestion that environmental pollution could be an answer.

But I have noticed colour variations in a number of even older shield sovereigns (165 years) so it’s not unusual. My experience with ‘Gillicks’ has been gold colour consistency. Von is right to be suspicious though, and even to question the alloy content. However, I believe that silver has been used in nearly all the earlier sovereigns, but of course not in todays modern sovereigns which use all copper…..