Sovereign Die Number Run

[dicker]

Hi All

I have seen many collect date runs of Sovs and Half Sovs.

I came across someone a few weeks ago who is collecting Die numbers across this Sovs from the London Mint.

A different type of “run” collecting and his research has (not surprisingly) identified Sovereigns with mint marks not in Marsh.

I wondered if any here is collecting based on Die numbers?

Best

Dicker

[ZRPMs]

Far more interesting than just date runs. I know I'm in need of 169 to get me up to date on my date and mint runs but Die numbers. The largest die number I have is on an 1873 and it's 103. For this year alone it would suggest that there are at least another 102 to get not withstanding any higher numbered die's but I suppose some may have been rejected. That's where the research comes in though. I've always thought them fascinating but never thought of collecting die runs.  

[modofantasma]

I note them down but haven't got any further than that. Lowest I've got is a die number 2 and the highest so far 86 I think, nothing that stood out though. 

[modofantasma]

56 minutes ago, dicker said:

Hi All

I have seen many collect date runs of Sovs and Half Sovs.

Have you a particular aim with your collection? 

Ultimately I'm stacking though when I did a 'stock take' getting the different bullion dates back to about 1860 wasn't that far away 

[dicker]

17 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Have you a particular aim with your collection? 

Ultimately I'm stacking though when I did a 'stock take' getting the different bullion dates back to about 1860 wasn't that far away 

I am collecting Aussie Halves and Shields.

The gent I spoke to who was collecting Dies thought it might be different.  
 

Best

Dicker

[Britannia47]

3 hours ago, dicker said:

Hi All

I have seen many collect date runs of Sovs and Half Sovs.

I came across someone a few weeks ago who is collecting Die numbers across this Sovs from the London Mint.

A different type of “run” collecting and his research has (not surprisingly) identified Sovereigns with mint marks not in Marsh.

I wondered if any here is collecting based on Die numbers?

Best

Dicker

Mission Impossible I would think - rather like collecting match box labels!  
‘Die Numbers So Far Known’  Maybe 800-1000 according to Marsh. 

Well anyway I’ve just checked mine and have a massive collection of Seven!  From ‘2’ to ‘92’ Having said that, it was always interesting (by pot luck) to get a die number on a shield….

Good-luck to anyone who wants to try 😃

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

Got a few 1's and the last die numbers of certain years.   

[Spyder]

I have a die 11 on my 1873 Shield. 

[ZRPMs]

Just been trying to have a look about the different Die's I came across a site listing a number of dies for each year. However I have 3 coins with die numbers not listed> I'm not sure if the site is lacking in its data or have a got a couple of suspect coins. How ever they seem to check out from my checks

[jultorsk]

Bold. Wasn't even the Bentley collection unsuccessful on this mission? 🤔

[dicker]

1 hour ago, jultorsk said:

Bold. Wasn't even the Bentley collection unsuccessful on this mission? 🤔

I think so!  

I don’t ever criticise what someone is collecting.  I found this an interesting slant but also thought it would be tricky. 

Anyone who has bought a fair number of Sovs and Halves will have come across a die number or two not listed in Marsh. It’s a worthy cause just might be too tricky   

Best

Dicker

[dicker]

15 hours ago, ZRPMs said:

Far more interesting than just date runs. I know I'm in need of 169 to get me up to date on my date and mint runs but Die numbers. The largest die number I have is on an 1873 and it's 103. For this year alone it would suggest that there are at least another 102 to get not withstanding any higher numbered die's but I suppose some may have been rejected. That's where the research comes in though. I've always thought them fascinating but never thought of collecting die runs.  

I think that not all numbers were used on all coins in a year.  So there are probably deliberate gaps.  

[SidS]

17 hours ago, ZRPMs said:

Far more interesting than just date runs. I know I'm in need of 169 to get me up to date on my date and mint runs but Die numbers. The largest die number I have is on an 1873 and it's 103. For this year alone it would suggest that there are at least another 102 to get not withstanding any higher numbered die's but I suppose some may have been rejected. That's where the research comes in though. I've always thought them fascinating but never thought of collecting die runs.  

Not necessarily, there are gaps in die number runs. Not all numbers were used all years.

I did have a list (now lost) that I posted many years ago - probably on the pre-decimal forum.

The question I have always wondered and still wonder is: If an 1865 sovereign and an 1866 sovereign both have die number 22, are they struck from the same reverse dies, or are there two different dies?

As for collecting by die number, I did buy a batch of shillings from someone who had been collecting them by die number. I was only after the dates, so I left a lot with them, but it has certainly been tried before!

[ZRPMs]

36 minutes ago, SidS said:

Not necessarily, there are gaps in die number runs. Not all numbers were used all years.

I did have a list (now lost) that I posted many years ago - probably on the pre-decimal forum.

The question I have always wondered and still wonder is: If an 1865 sovereign and an 1866 sovereign both have die number 22, are they struck from the same reverse dies, or are there two different dies?

As for collecting by die number, I did buy a batch of shillings from someone who had been collecting them by die number. I was only after the dates, so I left a lot with them, but it has certainly been tried before!

It is quite interesting. There is also the die's that during their use got damaged. That is, someone may have a coin with die number 37 then some one else may have the same year and the same die yet a crack in the die has appeared. Same year same die yet which do you collect. just one, the good one or the one with the damage, both as examples of and early impression and then one at the end of the die's life as an error coin. Then tracking down the die that had the faults before they were replaced.

I've been though the spreadsheet and I have 10 full sovereigns with die numbers and 4 half yet one of my halves is a damaged one ex-jewellery and the die number is unclear. I may have more and just not made a note of it. 

If I'm not too careful I could easily start picking them up if the die number is different to what I have. Not really collecting the die's but a collection of die's.

 

[SidS]

20 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

If I'm not too careful I could easily start picking them up if the die number is different to what I have. Not really collecting the die's but a collection of die's.

I can forsee three ways to undertake a more affordable die number run.

1) Collect just by die number - a range from 1 to 100+, irrespective of date of issue.

2) Pick one date (say 1863) and just buy 1863 coins and try and get the full range for that one date - plus any unrecorded. This is what the shilling collector was doing.

3) Pick one die number say 11 - and collect any sovereign with that die number. Perhaps some evidence of die used across years, or duplicate dies in one year may surface with such an approach. Could always pick your favourite number.

[dicker]

I thought that this post would not get any replies, but I am glad to see people with opinions and information.

[Stuntman]

46 minutes ago, SidS said:

I can forsee three ways to undertake a more affordable die number run.

1) Collect just by die number - a range from 1 to 100+, irrespective of date of issue.

2) Pick one date (say 1863) and just buy 1863 coins and try and get the full range for that one date - plus any unrecorded. This is what the shilling collector was doing.

3) Pick one die number say 11 - and collect any sovereign with that die number. Perhaps some evidence of die used across years, or duplicate dies in one year may surface with such an approach. Could always pick your favourite number.

Three very nic(h)e ideas there!

Die numbers are definitely an interesting area of UK coinage.  I don't have any gold coins dated before 2000 but if I ever did collect older sovereigns I would definitely look for some with die numbers, once I'd covered off the Monarchs and mints.

I have a florin and a shilling with die numbers, but that's about it in my predecimal collection.

[GoldDiggerDave]

@dicker I would love to see “new” sovereigns with die numbers .  

[Stuntman]

Although at the moment, they are made in Llantrisant by a number of Dais... 😉

[SidS]

7 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

@dicker I would love to see “new” sovereigns with die numbers .  

It would be very interesting from the point of view of QC - especially with some of the reported minting defects of this year's Brits.

[pricha]

I will buy a sovereign from a year I already have if its a different die number.  So I have some years missing but 4 or 5 from a same year. Condition is more important now when I buy. 

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