Best bank that allows you to make a bank transfer without blocking ?

[flyingveepixie]

On 10/03/2023 at 21:37, danieldorkins said:

 

This is the answer received:

"Thanks for getting in touch.

The gold is allocated to you and Tally is the custodian of the gold. Just so you know we do not offer the service of gold delivery."

sort of yes it's yours but you can't get your hands on it - interesting conundram!
 

 

On 11/03/2023 at 04:02, SidS said:

Unallocated gold. Basically there is (somewhere) a quantity of gold and you purchase shares in it (for want of a better word). The same piece of gold can be sold over and over again to multiple purchasers. None of whom can take delivery of it - you can however cash out the fiat value of it at any time.

It's like betting on a horse, it can win a race or it can lose the race, but no matter how much money you put on it, you never buy the racehorse.

This sounds like a ponzi scheme and a bit of a scam and I struggle to believe that anyone actually buys into it.  You pay for the gold but you don't own it, never will own it,  and it can be sold over and over as many times as they like and they get to trouser your hard earned cash...   😠   

You can of course get your investment back at any time (until the whole thing goes tits up one day).   WTF??   

I assume it's the same kind of scam that occurs with silver to keep the price low.  "Paper silver" I believe they call it, so this must be "paper gold"  

Not for me thanks.

On a more positive note I was pleased to see the price of REAL gold ending the week on £1552.19

Maybe the high end to the week for gold had something to do with this..  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/10/investing/svb-bank/index.html

Is this what you were talking about earlier @Bigmarc?

Silver even recovered by a few pennies...

Several other US banks had exposure to this bank to varying extents and their share prices dropped accordingly.

Edited March 12, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[Bigmarc]

24 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

 

This sounds like a ponzi scheme and a complete scam for mugs and I struggle to believe that anyone actually buys into it.  You pay for the gold but you don't own it, never will own it,  and it can be sold over and over as many times as they like and they get to trouser your hard earned cash...   😠   

You can of course get your investment back at any time (until the whole thing goes tits up one day).   WTF??   

I assume it's the same kind of scam that occurs with silver to keep the price low.  "Paper silver" I believe they call it, so this must be "paper gold"  

Not for me thanks.

On a more positive note I was pleased to see the price of REAL gold ending the week on £1552.19

Maybe the high end to the week for gold had something to do with this..  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/10/investing/svb-bank/index.html

Is this what you were talking about earlier @Bigmarc?

Silver even recovered by a few pennies...

Several other US banks had exposure to this bank to varying extents and their share prices dropped accordingly.

Yes mate, I have one eye on the metals world and the other in the crypto space. A lot of tech have their money in there and feel many alts maybe wiped out. probably good for bitcoin tho. 

As for tally money. It's like wandering into a bullion dealer, buying an ounce with cash and walking out with an i.o.u. 

[danieldorkins]

4 hours ago, SidS said:

Unallocated gold. Basically there is (somewhere) a quantity of gold and you purchase shares in it (for want of a better word). The same piece of gold can be sold over and over again to multiple purchasers. None of whom can take delivery of it - you can however cash out the fiat value of it at any time.

It's like betting on a horse, it can win a race or it can lose the race, but no matter how much money you put on it, you never buy the racehorse.

The Tally bumf does state that each Tally is used to purchase 1mg of gold, there is no hint that you are purchasing shares in a set amount of gold eg they have a kg but are issuing 2 million shares! each pound deposited effectively buys a £ worth of gold at the world price at that point in time, strictly speaking, if that mg of gold has been sold to you it cannot be sold to anyone else, you would have to have some faith in the fact they are FCA licensed. Anything to do with gold is a gamble, my bit of cash has increased by just under 1% in the last week? however I know it is possible to crash and burn, obviousely I don't think it will or I wouldn't be involved so I will give it a go! 🙂

[SidS]

Allocated gold is where you purchase gold held on your behalf and you are able to take delivery of it. If you can not take delivery of the gold then you have no proof that you are the only holder of that gold. Allocated gold often comes with a storage fee. They are storing your property for you.

Will you be paying storage fees once you've purchased it?

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/index/gold-investment/allocated-vs-unallocated-gold/

 

[Bratnia]

3 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Just to add on silicone valley bank. USDC (crypto stable coin) has 30% of its holdings in this bank. It's currently not very stable but could create an opportunity to gets some cheap crypto over the next week or so. Wait until the contagion has died out.

I don't suspect contagion will spread that far. SVB had no risk manager for nearly a year (prior one resigned back in early spring 2022), a new one just being appointed in February. Banks that hold bonds to maturity don't have to market to market that value, but it was noted that if they did have to sell the marked to market value after recent increases in yields/interest rates (lower bond prices) would involve a large hit. So the CEO first sold large amounts of their own stock and Options ... before declaring that risk. So other majors started pulling their money from SVB. If the bonds were held to maturity then there was no risk. So the FDIC have in effect bought SVB at 30 cents (whatever) on the dollar, have the liquidity to cover withdrawals, and can hold the bonds to maturity and make a quick/large profit. Other smaller banks will be rushing around like mad to secure liquidity in order to avoid them being the next 'bought out' (by FDIC) 'failure'. Many (better managed) banks likely have much of that already covered - as part of normal risk-management practices.

[danieldorkins]

10 hours ago, flyingveepixie said:

 

This sounds like a ponzi scheme and a complete scam for mugs and I struggle to believe that anyone actually buys into it.  You pay for the gold but you don't own it, never will own it,  and it can be sold over and over as many times as they like and they get to trouser your hard earned cash...   😠   

You can of course get your investment back at any time (until the whole thing goes tits up one day).   WTF??   

I assume it's the same kind of scam that occurs with silver to keep the price low.  "Paper silver" I believe they call it, so this must be "paper gold"  

Not for me thanks.

On a more positive note I was pleased to see the price of REAL gold ending the week on £1552.19

Maybe the high end to the week for gold had something to do with this..  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/10/investing/svb-bank/index.html

Is this what you were talking about earlier @Bigmarc?

Silver even recovered by a few pennies...

Several other US banks had exposure to this bank to varying extents and their share prices dropped accordingly.

Lets not mince words! 😒, it's been a long time since I've been called a mug! lets clarify one or two things, Tally Money is not an investment scheme, you are not buying gold as such, you are using a Tally account the same as Revolut etc (and I don't see Revolut being called a scam or ponzi scheme) for those who have not understood, Tally was set up where you can deposit cash by bank transfer (as in Revolut and I also have a Revolut a/c) you are issued with a debit Mastercard, transactions in sterling, which is used just like any other Mastercard (ATM, online shopping, down at Tesco's etc) the cash you have deposited is backed by gold and is shown on your account as "Tallys" the number of Tallys shown on your account is the equivalent to the number of milligrams of gold that backs your cash:

"When you transfer pounds into your account, your money immediately buys you LBMA-approved gold, securely vaulted in Switzerland on your behalf. Your gold is denominated in ‘tally’ in your online account, so you can use it as everyday money. Save, send, and spend instantly worldwide using your Tally App and Tally Debit Mastercard." (taken from their website)

Tally moneyt is not an investment, anymore than the cash you deposit with Revolut and the like is, it is shown on your acount in both Tallys and  pounds, spending, obviously shows as a debit in both pound and Tally, when the price of gold goes up or down this change is shown in the number of Tallys and pounds and pence, how often this occurs I do not know but the last 3 days as gold has gone up this has been reflected in my balance. Taken at face value your cash is backed by a physical asset (unlike fiat currency as in Revolut and the like) whether you trust this to be the case is down to the individual, yes, as its "converted" to Tally it is not insured by the FCA and this is made very clear but they are licensed to operate and a seperate insurance of the back up gold is in place, again, it is up to the individual whether to believe this or not.

I would respectfully suggest that before shooting this down in flames and assuming it is a scam, ponzie etc (and calling me a mug 😒) that a bit of research is done, if you can find factual evidence that this is a scam I would like to know as this would be contrary to everything I have read, a lot of which comes from recognised and respected organisations.

I await the flak!!!

 

[flyingveepixie]

2 hours ago, danieldorkins said:

Lets not mince words! 😒, it's been a long time since I've been called a mug! lets clarify one or two things, Tally Money is not an investment scheme, you are not buying gold as such, you are using a Tally account the same as Revolut etc (and I don't see Revolut being called a scam or ponzi scheme) for those who have not understood, Tally was set up where you can deposit cash by bank transfer (as in Revolut and I also have a Revolut a/c) you are issued with a debit Mastercard, transactions in sterling, which is used just like any other Mastercard (ATM, online shopping, down at Tesco's etc) the cash you have deposited is backed by gold and is shown on your account as "Tallys" the number of Tallys shown on your account is the equivalent to the number of milligrams of gold that backs your cash:

"When you transfer pounds into your account, your money immediately buys you LBMA-approved gold, securely vaulted in Switzerland on your behalf. Your gold is denominated in ‘tally’ in your online account, so you can use it as everyday money. Save, send, and spend instantly worldwide using your Tally App and Tally Debit Mastercard." (taken from their website)

Tally moneyt is not an investment, anymore than the cash you deposit with Revolut and the like is, it is shown on your acount in both Tallys and  pounds, spending, obviously shows as a debit in both pound and Tally, when the price of gold goes up or down this change is shown in the number of Tallys and pounds and pence, how often this occurs I do not know but the last 3 days as gold has gone up this has been reflected in my balance. Taken at face value your cash is backed by a physical asset (unlike fiat currency as in Revolut and the like) whether you trust this to be the case is down to the individual, yes, as its "converted" to Tally it is not insured by the FCA and this is made very clear but they are licensed to operate and a seperate insurance of the back up gold is in place, again, it is up to the individual whether to believe this or not.

I would respectfully suggest that before shooting this down in flames and assuming it is a scam, ponzie etc (and calling me a mug 😒) that a bit of research is done, if you can find factual evidence that this is a scam I would like to know as this would be contrary to everything I have read, a lot of which comes from recognised and respected organisations.

I await the flak!!!

 

My apologies sir.   No offence intended, I was generalising.   Everybody is different of course.  😊

I'm one of these "if you don't hold it, you don't own it" types and couldn't bring myself to do this, but if it works for you and you're happy with it that's great.  No flak from me.

It sounds kind of like a bank account though the way you describe it....

[danieldorkins]

9 hours ago, flyingveepixie said:

My apologies sir.   No offence intended, I was generalising.   Everybody is different of course.  😊

I'm one of these "if you don't hold it, you don't own it" types and couldn't bring myself to do this, but if it works for you and you're happy with it that's great.  No flak from me.

It sounds kind of like a bank account though the way you describe it....

"It sounds kind of like a bank account though the way you describe it...." ----- That is exactly what it is! no offence taken (well maybe just a little bit!)

[Bigmarc]

12 hours ago, danieldorkins said:

Lets not mince words! 😒, it's been a long time since I've been called a mug! lets clarify one or two things, Tally Money is not an investment scheme, you are not buying gold as such, you are using a Tally account the same as Revolut etc (and I don't see Revolut being called a scam or ponzi scheme) for those who have not understood, Tally was set up where you can deposit cash by bank transfer (as in Revolut and I also have a Revolut a/c) you are issued with a debit Mastercard, transactions in sterling, which is used just like any other Mastercard (ATM, online shopping, down at Tesco's etc) the cash you have deposited is backed by gold and is shown on your account as "Tallys" the number of Tallys shown on your account is the equivalent to the number of milligrams of gold that backs your cash:

"When you transfer pounds into your account, your money immediately buys you LBMA-approved gold, securely vaulted in Switzerland on your behalf. Your gold is denominated in ‘tally’ in your online account, so you can use it as everyday money. Save, send, and spend instantly worldwide using your Tally App and Tally Debit Mastercard." (taken from their website)

Tally moneyt is not an investment, anymore than the cash you deposit with Revolut and the like is, it is shown on your acount in both Tallys and  pounds, spending, obviously shows as a debit in both pound and Tally, when the price of gold goes up or down this change is shown in the number of Tallys and pounds and pence, how often this occurs I do not know but the last 3 days as gold has gone up this has been reflected in my balance. Taken at face value your cash is backed by a physical asset (unlike fiat currency as in Revolut and the like) whether you trust this to be the case is down to the individual, yes, as its "converted" to Tally it is not insured by the FCA and this is made very clear but they are licensed to operate and a seperate insurance of the back up gold is in place, again, it is up to the individual whether to believe this or not.

I would respectfully suggest that before shooting this down in flames and assuming it is a scam, ponzie etc (and calling me a mug 😒) that a bit of research is done, if you can find factual evidence that this is a scam I would like to know as this would be contrary to everything I have read, a lot of which comes from recognised and respected organisations.

I await the flak!!!

 

Try not to stress too much. Many different types of people here who lets say are getting on a bit and are well into the argumentative grumpy stage in life alongside a distinct obsession with hoarding metal. People are going to have a difference in opinion. Along with this, members range from the wealthy banker types to benefit claimers, tech nerds to people bunkered up waiting for the world to end, some don't even have a telly. People will fall out from time to time and give a certain amount of flak. 

As for tally money. 

The company offers a tally token in exchange for gold that they keep, so let's face it. Questions need to be asked. Insurance is only really useful to them as it's their gold. If you had pounds in your account then that would be insured by the FCA, but you don't, you have a token called a tally? Why do this? Does tally offer any other service? 

Many on here like kinessis, I had a look in the early days but it was very difficult to use and some of the fees were expensive, it's my understanding they now have a card and it's allocated gold (doesn't belong to them). I think they also have the ability to change crypto on the app now. 

https://kinesis.money/

Glint was another I looked at, allocated gold again. Crypto options and a card. 

https://glintpay.com/ 

Revolut started as a FX card, for those of us that worked abroad a lot it was it's main selling point as it knocked everyone else out of the park. Didn't even have to bother thinking about currency before travelling, just didn't it at the bar when I got there. It wasn't until later they added commodities, crypto and share trading and they were quiet transparent that they were doing it on your behalf. 

There are many cryptos coming out on a daily basis now, even some owned by mining companies themselves. Some allocated some not. 

To conclude, if someone wanted exposure to gold then there is plenty of choice, some more user friendly and some not but it does make sense to know where your money is going and what you are getting, weighing up all the risks. 

 

 

[Cogload]

Sort of bemused by the CBDC talk on here and "the government can watch where I spend my money". Well if you use debit and credit cards now they can trace your money at a drop of a hat. It is effectively digital money. Unless your entire existence is based on being paid in cash and not having a bank account your financial history can be traced. 

I have just discovered Wise. Am finding it quote useful for buying products overseas. I don't have a credit card because of...history..so am not protected that - but so far the banks I use have honoured my purchases (mind they are relatively small amounts in the round). 

 

[EdwardTeach]

20 minutes ago, Cogload said:

Sort of bemused by the CBDC talk on here and "the government can watch where I spend my money". Well if you use debit and credit cards now they can trace your money at a drop of a hat. It is effectively digital money. Unless your entire existence is based on being paid in cash and not having a bank account your financial history can be traced. 

 

No CBDCs are very different to what we use now and the immediate direct tracking aspect is only a very small part of it. At the moment the government can order a bank to provide information or freeze accounts but they don’t actually have direct access to the account themselves.

With a CBDC they can directly track and control not just your account but also every single individual transaction you make in real time. This can be done either manually or by using AI algorithms. The key word is ‘Programmability’. A CBDC is a programmable currency meaning that it will only work with ‘government approved’ purchases. At the press of a button the government can decide what you’re allowed to buy and where you're allowed to buy it from.

So ask yourself, do you trust our current government and every future government to have your best interests at heart and think that they will never be tempted to abuse this power to control you with? I hope so because they’ll have total direct control of your currency and how you can spend it.

If for example they want to lock you down then suddenly you can't spend your currency on travel tickets but you can still buy food provided it's from a shop within a two mile radius of your house.

Edited March 12, 2023 by EdwardTeach

[SidS]

As above - particularly "do you trust our current government..."

Matt Hancock's leaked correspondence about making the public panic over a new covid variant - scare the pants off of them - I believe were the choice of words, to ensure they could undertake another lockdown.

Governments have long been considered a necessary evil, however, they are far from your friend or trustworthy.

Just out of interest, curiosity on my part mostly, but has @cogload ever read Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four?

If not, it an eye opener. Bear in mind it was written by a former socialist who had seen the dangers of authoritarian socialism/communism first hand. What he describes, though technically fiction, was nothing the Nazis or Stalinist Russia hand already tried. Many examples in his novel were no doubt from real life.

With regards to most things since covid and other current issues, it's both prophetic and grim reading.

Edited March 12, 2023 by SidS

[bluemoon]

30 minutes ago, Cogload said:

Sort of bemused by the CBDC talk on here and "the government can watch where I spend my money". Well if you use debit and credit cards now they can trace your money at a drop of a hat. It is effectively digital money. Unless your entire existence is based on being paid in cash and not having a bank account your financial history can be traced. 

I have just discovered Wise. Am finding it quote useful for buying products overseas. I don't have a credit card because of...history..so am not protected that - but so far the banks I use have honoured my purchases (mind they are relatively small amounts in the round). 

 

You think we don't want the bank tracking to be reversed too? That's precisely why we don't want CBDCs either.

[Cogload]

29 minutes ago, EdwardTeach said:

No CBDCs are very different to what we use now and the immediate direct tracking aspect is only a very small part of it. At the moment the government can order a bank to provide information or freeze accounts but they don’t actually have direct access to the account themselves.

With a CBDC they can directly track and control not just your account but also every single individual transaction you make in real time. This can be done either manually or by using AI algorithms. The key word is ‘Programmability’. A CBDC is a programmable currency meaning that it will only work with ‘government approved’ purchases. At the press of a button the government can decide what you’re allowed to buy and where you're allowed to buy it from.

So ask yourself, do you trust our current government and every future government to have your best interests at heart and think that they will never be tempted to abuse this power to control you with? I hope so because they’ll have total direct control of your currency and how you can spend it.

If for example they want to lock you down then suddenly you can't spend your currency on travel tickets but you can still buy food provided it's from a shop within a two mile radius of your house.

 

If a government in the future decided the only form of convertible currency was a CBDC then to be frank you have no choice but to use it. 

The government can track how I am being paid now to what I spend my cash on - all which will change is instead of a bank algorithm telling you what you can and can't spend (accessible by the Government) is one replaced by (possibly) by the BoE or HMRC. And if routed through a bank what would railing against the dying of the light do? The Algorithm would (theoretically) watch what you spendr and how you spend it. 

 

As for the Orwell references. Yes I know the book and if you are really scared by what it pertains don't ever ever buy a smartphone. Of any description. 

[bluemoon]

6 minutes ago, Cogload said:

 

If a government in the future decided the only form of convertible currency was a CBDC then to be frank you have no choice but to use it. 

The government can track how I am being paid now to what I spend my cash on - all which will change is instead of a bank algorithm telling you what you can and can't spend (accessible by the Government) is one replaced by (possibly) by the BoE or HMRC. And if routed through a bank what would railing against the dying of the light do? The Algorithm would (theoretically) watch what you spendr and how you spend it. 

 

As for the Orwell references. Yes I know the book and if you are really scared by what it pertains don't ever ever buy a smartphone. Of any description. 

Well again, the existing infrastructures are the reasons to not want CBDCs, because we see how it is abused (Canada truckers for example). I think your argument is that the existing infrastructure is therefore a gateway to something similar, but that is the slippery slope fallacy.

Smartphones can be very private actually, even more private than dumbphones. GrapheneOS with private apps like Signal Messenger. It's only Google Android and iPhones that are bad. People equate them with all smartphones only because they are the 2 mainstream ones. Smartphones do not mean no privacy.

[EdwardTeach]

21 hours ago, Cogload said:

 

If a government in the future decided the only form of convertible currency was a CBDC then to be frank you have no choice but to use it. 

 

No choice eh? You overestimate the power of governments. Their power mostly resides in using scare tactics and in reality is ultimately little more than just a huge bluff. If people understand what a CBDC is and the risks it presents to our freedom then they won’t want to use it. If people refuse to adopt a CBDC as the new currency they use to make everyday transactions with then the government will be powerless to force it on us.

This exact scenario is actually happening right now in Nigeria with the e-naira CBDC that the government rolled out a year ago. Despite a huge amount of persuasion and fear tactics by the government only 0.05% of the population have ever made a transaction using the e-naira CBDC while other 99.95% of the population are flat out refusing to use it.

With a new tactic last month the Nigerian government changed the legal tender paper currency notes to new ones with a different design but they massively limited the supply of them to try and force people to use the CBDC instead. But still the people are refusing to adopt it and despite a widespread collapse of businesses and banks due to the lack of non-CBDC currency in circulation there. The people will only use non-CBDC currency for their transactions and there is little the government can do to stop them.

Edited March 13, 2023 by EdwardTeach

[EdwardTeach]

17 minutes ago, bluemoon said:

Smartphones can be very private actually, even more private than dumbphones. GrapheneOS with private apps like Signal Messenger. It's only Google Android and iPhones that are bad. People equate them with all smartphones only because they are the 2 mainstream ones. Smartphones do not mean no privacy.

Very interesting. I did not know this.

[SidS]

1 hour ago, Cogload said:

If a government in the future decided the only form of convertible currency was a CBDC then to be frank you have no choice but to use it.

Why should we voluntarily surrender these freedoms though?

Governments will do what they can get away with. They want a defeatist attitude in the populace as it makes them easier to rule. Voter apathy is great, "what's the point in voting, they're all the same?"

Governments are supposed to serve the people, not the other way around.

[Bigmarc]

21 minutes ago, SidS said:

Why should we voluntarily surrender these freedoms though?

Because we are British!. 

Unfortunately we are too far gone, absolutely no sense of community left. If you were to ask anybody in the street, would you sacrifice Google, instrgram, YouTube and Facebook to get your privacy back what do you think the answer will be? Yes you will get the one's that protest but will just be an embarrassing handful like the lockdown one's. I don't know much about Nigeria but I am assuming they still meet up and actually talk to eachother. I am not for or against CBDC's as it's currently just speculation. Nobody knows what it's going to be but I am pretty sure it will be rolled out without much fuss here in the UK. It's best not to meet trouble head on and just go with it (British). 

[bluemoon]

2 hours ago, EdwardTeach said:

Very interesting. I did not know this.

It's been quite liberating for me since I switched about 4 years ago. I took an existing Android phone like Google Pixel then installed GrapheneOS over it. GrapheneOS is an Android operating system but non-Google. There are others like LineageOS or Brax2. Android is it's own system, people confuse it for being Google itself but it's not. If installing GrapheneOS replacing your Google Android is too technical then you can buy it pre-installed on eBay or get a phone shop to do it. There are YouTube tutorials too.

From there it's just choosing the right apps. I don't use Whatsapp because it's tracking your contacts, location, profile picture and running that all through its Facebook ecosystem. I use Signal Messenger which works exactly the same way but is open source so users can know it's fully private and doesn't do any tracking.

A VPN is the last main protection. It just makes sure your ISP can't see what apps you're using or what sites you visit. ProtonVPN's free version will do.

If you wanted to cut all ties (I don't do this), you can pull out the SIM card and use only Signal Messenger for calls and texts. But I'm not on the run lol.

Edited March 12, 2023 by bluemoon

[Dankanugget]

I watched maneco64 yesterday and it mentioned a man in the US  who sold half a cow to a customer who bought it in gold…a 1 oz coin o be exact. Bartering in its easiest form.

Cbdc is very restrictive for the possessor as the ability to spend on what you like will be gone and based on what you’ve done ie good person in society. You will be allocated like a pie chart on what you can buy with what your given.

This  can fluctuate many times during a month. No mark no purchase.

Im sure there are ways around it for a time.

Its the beast system in its early stages.

bartering  does go on 

[Zeuk]

3 minutes ago, Dankanugget said:

I watched maneco64 yesterday and it mentioned a man in the US  who sold half a cow to a customer who bought it in gold…a 1 oz coin o be exact. Bartering in its easiest form.

Cbdc is very restrictive for the possessor as the ability to spend on what you like will be gone and based on what you’ve done ie good person in society. You will be allocated like a pie chart on what you can buy with what your given.

This  can fluctuate many times during a month. No mark no purchase.

Im sure there are ways around it for a time.

Its the beast system in its early stages.

bartering  does go on 

Which half? 

[Dankanugget]

Just now, Zeuk said:

Which half? 

Lol the better end

[Dankanugget]

Just now, Dankanugget said:

Lol the better end

He mentioned 200 lb in weight 

[Zeuk]

Just now, Dankanugget said:

He mentioned 200 lb in weight 

I’m from Suffolk mate, as long as it’s the read end it’s good