Old British Coins - Help!

[Squashie]

Hi Everybody 👋

So I've only ever been interested in 999 stuff really. But the last few weeks, I've taken a liking to pre '47 and pre '20 British Coins. 

... But it's a minefield! I'm trawling eBay (first sin I'm sure) and bidding, losing out every time. Clearly I've no idea what stuffs actually worth. 

So what's the best reading material for these old coins? And where's best for me to start? What's with the cash and what isn't? Bit of a broad one I'm afraid

I've got this idea in my head of an initial bulk purchase that I can get my hands into, throw in the air and roll around in. But I've realised that "junk" silver is misleading, and the prices and beyond what I expected!

Thanks 

 

Edit: I'm not particularly interested in one monarch, or denomination, I'm after maximising silver weight for reasonable price. I want silver that it won't pain me to handle lol

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Squashie

[Mobius]

Hi,

I'd recommend the current Spink book, everything will be in there with current values.

Just google 'Spink coins of England pre-decimal' and you'll find it -  it's about £35.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Mobius

[Silverlocks]

I'd also add that Ebay prices may or may not be connected with reality.

[Bigmarc]

2 hours ago, Squashie said:

Hi Everybody 👋

So I've only ever been interested in 999 stuff really. But the last few weeks, I've taken a liking to pre '47 and pre '20 British Coins. 

... But it's a minefield! I'm trawling eBay (first sin I'm sure) and bidding, losing out every time. Clearly I've no idea what stuffs actually worth. 

So what's the best reading material for these old coins? And where's best for me to start? What's with the cash and what isn't? Bit of a broad one I'm afraid

I've got this idea in my head of an initial bulk purchase that I can get my hands into, throw in the air and roll around in. But I've realised that "junk" silver is misleading, and the prices and beyond what I expected!

Thanks 

 

Edit: I'm not particularly interested in one monarch, or denomination, I'm after maximising silver weight for reasonable price. I want silver that it won't pain me to handle lol

 

 

Hello bud. 

I will try and explain how I do it. Firstly, don't buy by the weight as you don't really know what you are getting. I will use an example. 

What you need is a basic understanding of Google sheets and create a little spreadsheet to help you out with multiple lots. I have a number of them for different things. 

I just typed into eBay, florin then went to filters, taped on auction, then sold and this is a good example from today. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134463943678?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1nPNLihfRO6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=oa7vkurwsmm&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY 

Count up all the different dates you can make out and input them into your spreadsheet. 

You can see two florins, three shillings and five sixpence that are pre 47 and one shilling at pre 20. 

Now there was a coin I couldn't make out and a Florin with no silver in it so these are disregarded. 

The spot price came out at £18.14 and this lot sold for.... 

 

So this is about spot plus 10% premium plus post. I would not have made a bid on this item as I regard some as junk. 

Hope this helps.

[Squashie]

Thanks all for the help!

I like that spreadsheet idea @Bigmarc, where do you get your weight data? Numista?

[Bigmarc]

10 hours ago, Squashie said:

Thanks all for the help!

I like that spreadsheet idea @Bigmarc, where do you get your weight data? Numista?

Can't remember exactly where I got my info but here's a link to something similar. I converted it to Troy Oz for ease. 

https://coinhunter.co.uk/value-silver-coins/

 

[pricha]

11 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Can't remember exactly where I got my info but here's a link to something similar. I converted it to Troy Oz for ease. 

https://coinhunter.co.uk/value-silver-coins/

""prices are for new condition coins "" says the site . If anyone is selling a pre 1920 newish condition crown for £16.22 i'd bite their hands off. 

I would say ignore any pre 1920 coin price on that site unless it's in dreadful condition then you may be close. They then continue to sell pre 1920 coins for very high prices. In superb condition granted. They are dealers i understand that.  

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by pricha

[Squashie]

Thanks for the info all 😁

[Squashie]

13 hours ago, pricha said:

 

@pricha there’s so many copies available, besides price, is there a way to determine a replica? I imagine silver content is a factor?

[KevjustKev]

I've found some nice coins (AU 53-58?) when buying just for weight. Dealers tend not to have the time to go through large amounts of coins on the off chance that a few might be better.

Buy X oz's, you 'will' find some good ones, or at least ones better than those you might have.

It's worked for me.

I've found dealers charge about spot + 10%

Edited March 5, 2023 by KevjustKev

[Bigmarc]

13 hours ago, pricha said:

 

Just to clarify, the site is only for information on silver content only. Stick to auctions and here for and pre decimal.

[pricha]

On the subject of fakes. I'd imagine silver is far easier to counterfeit than gold. The metal is cheaper obviously.  It's scary really. I think Lawrence mentioned something about this some time back and made me think twice about purchasing real expensive pre 1920. As always I can only recommend reputable dealers. Of course I'd imagine something like a gothic Queen.  If the technology got so good. it would be frightening.  

Edited March 5, 2023 by pricha

[Bigmarc]

I have had hundreds if not thousands pass through my hands and have never knowingly come across a fake and have never bought from a dealer unless I can see the actual lot I am purchasing. There are constant complaints of people purchasing from a picture from the likes of the royal mint and not receiving when expected or poor quality. The beauty of pre decimal is what you see is what you get, junk or some nice examples. The hunt is far far better than just buying from a standard picture from a "reputable" dealer (if there is such a thing). 

[pricha]

I don't think the market is flooded with fakes. I was just wondering if the prices at the top end were so high , and the technology existed ( probably in China ) .925 silver is extremely cheap.  One for the future to worry about.  If you can pick up a batch of coins and there are some nice ones amongst them that's excellent.  When you see the price of individual coins selling for high prices ( I'm selling a quite worn shilling at the moment for much higher price than expected ) then I can't see dealers not bothering to search through them.  Most bulk pre 1920 I ever see for sale are overpriced and generally rubbish. Obviously if you have a good source to buy from  that's great.

[SidS]

As you know I've been stacking pre-1920 a long while. I've definitely handled over £100 face in the stuff. In that time I've come across three fakes. I believe all of them to have been contemporary.

Two were George III sixpences, where the silver wash had worn off and were really obvious. Not bad strike mind. The George III coins are the biggest chance of getting a fake as they were heavily forged in the 1810s-20s.

The third was more curious. A Vicky young head shilling, very worn, probably poor-fair condition. For all intensive purposes it looked genuine, it had the right colour, the right feel etc. However, when placed on a silver slide it would stick on wherever placed and refuse to budge. Some silver coins go down slower than others (toning contaminating the surface etc.) but I've never had one that refused to budge at all!

Only Chinese silver is magnetic... 😁

I think I've had about two or three fakes of pre-1816 coins as well.

On the whole though, most lower grade coins are genuine.

More concerning of late though is the Chinese are starting to produced some circulated look coins, these tend to be rarer dates though. See 1850 shillings or 1905 half crowns for a sample.

Edited March 7, 2023 by SidS

[arphethean]

There are two very different markets. The scrap market where coins have passed through multiple dealers all of whom have sifted through it with varying attention to detail, so there is virtually no value left in it besides the silver content. In pre 1947 I charge around 5 percent premium for this stuff. Grades will vary from unreadable date to high grade 40s coins all of which have no rarity/low demand to justify selling individually. 

Pre1920 is far more sought after and goes for a higher premium for equivalent mixes of grades, say 8 to 10%. This is because even "fine" grade coins can be sold individually sometimes and coins back to 1816 are commonly found in these bundles. 

That's the scrap market. For coins of high grade, buy only from trusted sellers. I say this not because of fakes as I'm not aware of fakes, though this may be a factor, but because experienced sellers will generally know the grade and the value fairly accurately and know it is a futile exercise to attempt to sell overpriced coins. I'm talking about real experts with websites, high quality photos, grades and honest accurate descriptions on every individual coin. Silver coins in high grades will often sell for more than their gold value! I bought a Queen Anne shilling weighing 6g for £420 recently and a few have congratulated me on what a great price I paid! So the percentage premium is not a term that's relevant anymore. 

The scrap market is very easy to enter. You need to know what the silver content is so the lot needs to be accurately sorted by pre47/20 and weighed and then you can easily calculate the silver content and hence price. Do not pay over 10 percent unless you see a hidden gem. If it hasn't been weighed but you can see which denominations are included, that's more time consuming but you can pick up a bargain as not many people will bother to work out silver content. Just remember to make an adjustment for wear, maybe 90 to 95 percent of minted weight. 

The numismatic market on ebay is a minefield however. Prices will be all over the place, people will overgrade and overprice, photos will be horrendous. To enter this market, initially only buy from dealers and read up as much a you can first. Happy to recommend some books. 

It sounds more like you are interested in the scrap end market. I am happy to help with that and have about 18kg in stock right now. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by arphethean

[Squashie]

Thank you all 😁

@arphethean, thanks for pointers on pricing. I am certainly interested in purchasing some of the scrap you may have?

[Divmad]

On 03/03/2023 at 19:45, Bigmarc said:

Hello bud. 

I will try and explain how I do it. Firstly, don't buy by the weight as you don't really know what you are getting. I will use an example. 

What you need is a basic understanding of Google sheets and create a little spreadsheet to help you out with multiple lots. I have a number of them for different things. 

I just typed into eBay, florin then went to filters, taped on auction, then sold and this is a good example from today. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134463943678?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1nPNLihfRO6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=oa7vkurwsmm&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY 

Count up all the different dates you can make out and input them into your spreadsheet. 

You can see two florins, three shillings and five sixpence that are pre 47 and one shilling at pre 20. 

Now there was a coin I couldn't make out and a Florin with no silver in it so these are disregarded. 

The spot price came out at £18.14 and this lot sold for.... 

 

So this is about spot plus 10% premium plus post. I would not have made a bid on this item as I regard some as junk. 

Hope this helps.

And that's with all coins retaining their full weight in silver, an erroneous assumption. £24 for that lot was a rip off.

Always insist on knowing, or seeing the full weight of the lot.