Counterfeit Full Sovereign

[minionsofgold]

Has anyone spotted a counterfeit modern Sovereign coin at all and how would you check other than weighing it and visual check

8.0g (same as a genuine modern full Sov with my scale to nearest round up)

And any recommended Bullion shop in Birmingham please? 

 

 

Thanks!

[SheepStacker]

Do you have a set of calipers so you can measure the width and thickness?

Should be 22.05mm wide, and 1.52mm thick.

[minionsofgold]

7 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

Do you have a set of calipers so you can measure the width and thickness?

Should be 22.05mm wide, and 1.52mm thick.

I don't unfortunately 

thinking of buying one before but not sure which one is good

 

any recommended brands at all?

 

thanks!

[SheepStacker]

Do you have any official Royal Mint coin caps? If so, a proper Sov will fit in nice, with no edge space, but still fall out easy without needing to be pried.

For the thickness, compare it to a 1p coin, which has the same thickness.

[SheepStacker]

*same thickness as the bronze 1p

[James32]

19 minutes ago, minionsofgold said:

I don't unfortunately 

thinking of buying one before but not sure which one is good

 

any recommended brands at all?

 

thanks!

Set of digital calipers and decent set of scales can be had for around £50-60 , you really shouldn't be buying gold willy nilly without them. 

 

[ShineyMagpie]

5 minutes ago, James32 said:

calipers and decent set of scales

Cheap and cheerful but I would also add a neodymium magnet to that list, very quick and easy one to check @minionsofgold. Another thing you can do after the fact is a specific gravity test. You can find instructions online for how to do it.

[Darr3nG]

9 minutes ago, James32 said:

ou really shouldn't be buying gold willy nilly

Do you have any willy nilly gold for sale? Interested...

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, minionsofgold said:

Has anyone spotted a counterfeit modern Sovereign coin at all and how would you check other than weighing it and visual check

8.0g (same as a genuine modern full Sov with my scale to nearest round up)

And any recommended Bullion shop in Birmingham please? 

Thanks!

"Has anyone spotted a counterfeit modern Sovereign coin at all"

Yes, thousands of them!

"and how would you check other than weighing it and visual check"

visual check works about 99% of the time, although it helps to have seen plenty of genuine ones beforehand. Nowadays it's a lot easier, because you can look at thousands of photographs online.

8.0g (same as a genuine modern full Sov with my scale to nearest round up)

Which means that your sovereign is overweight, or you need better scales, to 0.01 grams is much better than 0.1 grams.

And any recommended Bullion shop in Birmingham please? 

I can't think of any I would recommend.

You failed to say what date, type, etc. of sovereigns you were looking at. If you did that it would make it easier for people to help you, and some good photographs of it might also help!

😎

[minionsofgold]

38 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

*same thickness as the bronze 1p

i went to look for 1p coin at home 😂 

problem these days with cashless payment all the time not much in pocket 

found 1 and it looks very similar with the thickness 

24 minutes ago, James32 said:

Set of digital calipers and decent set of scales can be had for around £50-60 , you really shouldn't be buying gold willy nilly without them. 

 

thank goodness my mum has a scale to 0.00g gonna give go to hers to pick it up but wouldn't be there at least a week later

I used to get gold bar in blister from RM so I didn't really have the concern about dimension 

that said I am being very naive and daft with gold coins, buy it off from some coin groups, completely forgot about things that need to be aware of

38 minutes ago, ShineyMagpie said:

Cheap and cheerful but I would also add a neodymium magnet to that list, very quick and easy one to check @minionsofgold. Another thing you can do after the fact is a specific gravity test. You can find instructions online for how to do it.

does a normal magnet does the job? I tried normal magnet and it did not stick to the Sovereign

I will give it a search online about the gravity test

Thanks @ShineyMagpie

7 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

"Has anyone spotted a counterfeit modern Sovereign coin at all"

Yes, thousands of them!

"and how would you check other than weighing it and visual check"

visual check works about 99% of the time, although it helps to have seen plenty of genuine ones beforehand. Nowadays it's a lot easier, because you can look at thousands of photographs online.

8.0g (same as a genuine modern full Sov with my scale to nearest round up)

Which means that your sovereign is overweight, or you need better scales, to 0.01 grams is much better than 0.1 grams.

And any recommended Bullion shop in Birmingham please? 

I can't think of any I would recommend.

You failed to say what date, type, etc. of sovereigns you were looking at. If you did that it would make it easier for people to help you, and some good photographs of it might also help!

😎

Thank you @LawrenceChard

I was trying to take a better photograph of it and to upload. 

Any recommended caliper tool set at all as I have seen they range from 7.99 - few hundred quid 

 

photos will be uploaded soon! 

2013 Full Sovereign 

[minionsofgold]

Edited February 5, 2023 by minionsofgold

[pricha]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

"Has anyone spotted a counterfeit modern Sovereign coin at all"

Yes, thousands of them!

"and how would you check other than weighing it and visual check"

visual check works about 99% of the time, although it helps to have seen plenty of genuine ones beforehand. Nowadays it's a lot easier, because you can look at thousands of photographs online.

8.0g (same as a genuine modern full Sov with my scale to nearest round up)

Which means that your sovereign is overweight, or you need better scales, to 0.01 grams is much better than 0.1 grams.

And any recommended Bullion shop in Birmingham please? 

I can't think of any I would recommend.

You failed to say what date, type, etc. of sovereigns you were looking at. If you did that it would make it easier for people to help you, and some good photographs of it might also help!

😎

That's a worry when Mr Chard said thousands. But of course modern goes back many years. I was thinking last two years or so at first ,  which then would be a major concern. 🤔  I had a counterfeit King George once which I sent off to Blackpool to confirm its fakeness.  Looking back now it was an obvious fake , but as the man says only after you've seen many genuine coins can you often tell. 

[SheepStacker]

1 minute ago, minionsofgold said:

Is it supposed to be a Proof?

[minionsofgold]

4 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

Is it supposed to be a Proof?

I have no idea 

because the seller just put a name, dated  photo with the sovereign (along with other sovereigns) + price 

mention nothing about a proof or ex proof or anything

but the colour comparing the other Sovereigns are lighter paler colour than the pinky modern Sovereigns 

Edited February 5, 2023 by minionsofgold

[SheepStacker]

Just now, minionsofgold said:

I have no idea 

because the seller just put a name, dated  photo with the sovereign + price 

but the colour comparing the other Sovereigns are lighter paler colour than the pinky modern Sovereigns 

Looks like a proof to me, which will have a mirrored finish, and will look different to your other Sovs. Apart from that, it looks fine, weight is ok, dimensions ok. If you still had doubts at this stage, you'd need to find a coin shop to test it for you.

[minionsofgold]

I have put another Sovereign side by side to check at first so I was concerned about the colour (and of course the thickness)

7 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

Looks like a proof to me, which will have a mirrored finish, and will look different to your other Sovs. Apart from that, it looks fine, weight is ok, dimensions ok. If you still had doubts at this stage, you'd need to find a coin shop to test it for you.

I probably still too new to Sovereigns and still a lot to learn

maybe it’s time to buy some proofs? 😂

[SheepStacker]

Do you know how to flip a coin by flicking it? If so, do that to both, compare the *ping* noises they make. Should be the same.

[minionsofgold]

11 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

Do you know how to flip a coin by flicking it? If so, do that to both, compare the *ping* noises they make. Should be the same.

sound checks are similar on suspected and genuine coins

 

Thanks @SheepStacker with all the help you given and everyone who helped me through this! 

[dicker]

Agree with @LawrenceChard there are a lot of counterfeits of all types of Sovereigns out there.  
 

The below is from AliExpress where there are multitude of counterfeits of many Sovereign types for sale.   For peanuts.  

These range from bad quality to high quality counterfeits.  

Best

Dicker

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

11 hours ago, SheepStacker said:

Looks like a proof to me, which will have a mirrored finish, and will look different to your other Sovs. Apart from that, it looks fine, weight is ok, dimensions ok. If you still had doubts at this stage, you'd need to find a coin shop to test it for you.

A proof sovereign normally has frosting mate! All because the fields are clean and reflective does not make it a proof.  I’ll send you some pictures of a bullion and a proof sovereign 

[GoldDiggerDave]

12 hours ago, minionsofgold said:

I have put another Sovereign side by side to check at first so I was concerned about the colour (and of course the thickness)

12 hours ago, SheepStacker said:

Looks like a proof to me, which will have a mirrored finish, and will look different to your other Sovs. Apart from that, it looks fine, weight is ok, dimensions ok. If you still had doubts at this stage, you'd need to find a coin shop to test it for you.

I probably still too new to Sovereigns and still a lot to learn

maybe it’s time to buy some proofs? 😂

Don't worry you both have a bit to learn by the looks of it.   You can find good examples of bullion coins that have clean and shiny fields, that can appear to be proof like (PL) and  a bullion sovereign which has also had a particular good strike Deep proof like (DPL)   It still doesn't make the coin a proof sovereign.  

 

A modern (and I will stress modern proof sovereign before anyone says what about the 1902 matt proof)  have frosting on the relief (the bits of the coin that stick out)   

This is a very good example of a quality bullion sovereign the 2019I  if you look at St George of there is no frosting this is why its graded as MS70DPL.   

The video is of a 2018 proof sovereign I conserved.....it came back a PF70UC you can clearly see the frosting to the raised areas.  

I hope you find this example of the difference between a bullion and a proof sovereign useful. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[LawrenceChard]

16 hours ago, minionsofgold said:

From the photos, it certainly looks like one of them is "wrong". I don't like the look of the right hand (yellow) one, but some of this may be due to your photography. The camera / lens was off centre compared with the coins.

Are these the only 2 sovereigns you have?

It might give a clue to know where you bought them.

Have you compared them with known genuine coins / photographs? For example:

and:

Neither of your coins is proof.

 

[LawrenceChard]

17 hours ago, SheepStacker said:

Looks like a proof to me, which will have a mirrored finish, and will look different to your other Sovs. Apart from that, it looks fine, weight is ok, dimensions ok. If you still had doubts at this stage, you'd need to find a coin shop to test it for you.

Defo not proof!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

17 hours ago, minionsofgold said:

I have put another Sovereign side by side to check at first so I was concerned about the colour (and of course the thickness)

I probably still too new to Sovereigns and still a lot to learn

maybe it’s time to buy some proofs? 😂

The best time to lelarn is before you start buying!

You could read this:

https://www.chards.co.uk/guides/advice-guide-for-uk-bullion-investors/1041

Although I may have already linked it!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

A modern (and I will stress modern proof sovereign before anyone says what about the 1902 matt proof)  have frosting on the relief (the bits of the coin that stick out)   

I regard "modern" gold sovereigns as being from 1817!

😎