Date run options?

[AaaGee]

So i have 2021 and 2022 1/10 & 1/4 brits starting a date run. And thinking of carrying it on untill the rear of the coin design changes. Should i give up now (will get the 2023 charles ones still) and put the money into sovereigns?

I can get a few of each every year but would there be a better way to go about it investment wise?

 

Cheers Rich 

 

Just to add, im not a big player so want the best from what i buy.

Edited October 11, 2022 by AaaGee

[Silverlocks]

I don't think you will have liquidity problems with 1/4oz or 1/10oz bullion but the spreads on these coins are significantly higher than sovs, so you will pay a bigger premium from a dealer.  I guess a date run will have a bit of collectible value in gold but I couldn't really say how much.  With a bit of luck they will keep their value but you've got a slightly bigger downside than you would have with sovs.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Silverlocks

[AaaGee]

Gold value Vs Sovereign collectabillity?

[Silverlocks]

2 hours ago, AaaGee said:

Gold value Vs Sovereign collectabillity?

Sort of.  The dealer spread on 1/4oz and 1/10oz bullion is higher than the typical dealer spread on a sovereign[1], so if you have to sell back to a dealer you've got a bigger downside.  Sovs are liquid enough that I think it would be very unlikely you couldn't sell on the secondary market, so even if you buy from a dealer your downside is likely to be the difference between about spot+6% and spot+3-4% for given values of spot at purchase and sale time.  If you get the sovs on the secondary market then there isn't going to be much spread at all (outside shifts in the spot price.)

In practice, I think you probably wouldn't have liquidity problems with 1/4 or 1/10oz coins, but the difference between dealer and secondary market prices is bigger for these, and the dealer margin is higher, so you've got a bigger downside risk if you buy the bullion coins.  I don't really know whether you could get much of a premium for selling a date run.  If you can get the 1/4 or 1/10oz coins at the right price you should be OK though, as they seem to retain some premium over spot on the secondary market, typically a bit more than sovs.

1 - I think the lower spread on sovs is really due to the large numbers produced rather than anything to do with the collectibility.  Some rare sovs can go for many thousands.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Silverlocks

[Orpster]

There are not many 'easy' full date runs on sovereigns, though partial runs can be very achievable

If you head in that direction I would recommend starting with one of: Gillicks (the 1957 has become problematical because of its surge recently) Old Head Victoria's or Jubilee Head Victoria's.  Also you need to decide if your doing runs by mint as well.  I mainly concentrate on Young Head Victoria's split by type/mint/reverse.  Very different kettle of fish to stacking generic sovereigns though and rare sovereigns, key dates or low mintages (which are not always classed as rare oddly) can be expensive to source in an acceptable grade/condition.  I would avoid shields unless you have deep pockets. 

Brits are actually cheaper to complete date runs, even with the higher premium when buying.  It only takes one or two rare sovereigns to bring up your cost average on sovereigns.  Even Brits though can have challenges, I have been after a 2014 1/4oz for a long time but yet to see one come up that is not graded or part of a set.

[harrygill111]

Not sure I Understand your question, but here is my view on it... 

I really enjoy 1/10ths and have a bunch of special designs which is fun. You've got to enjoy what you buy. 

A date run of recent bullion issues is not the most collectable in my opinion, not enough time has passed to add premium, there are so many on the market and not many (any?) special designs, on the brits, Proofs and Sovs yes. 

Investment wise, there are higher premiums on smaller coins vs bigger coins and vs Sovs. You get less metal for your money, but you only loose if you sell to a dealer for metal value (broadly speaking). There are plenty of private buyers who pay the premium on smaller coins, and buying a date run could save a collector some headache in sourcing individually, so perhaps a premium there too. Proofs are rare, so a date run of these is very compelling. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by harrygill111

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, AaaGee said:

So i have 2021 and 2022 1/10 & 1/4 brits starting a date run. And thinking of carrying it on untill the rear of the coin design changes. Should i give up now (will get the 2023 charles ones still) and put the money into sovereigns?

I can get a few of each every year but would there be a better way to go about it investment wise?

Cheers Rich 

Just to add, im not a big player so want the best from what i buy.

I say this several times every week, but, have you read:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/advice-guide-for-uk-bullion-investors/1041

Which includes "You should aim to buy at the lowest percentage premium within reason. It is important to compare percentage premiums, not prices to ensure you are getting the best deal."

It probably contains about 99% of the information and advice that UK bullion investors should know.

😎

[Orpster]

27 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I say this several times every week, but, have you read:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/advice-guide-for-uk-bullion-investors/1041

Which includes "You should aim to buy at the lowest percentage premium within reason. It is important to compare percentage premiums, not prices to ensure you are getting the best deal."

It probably contains about 99% of the information and advice that UK bullion investors should know.

😎

Have read this a couple of times when linked and it is great advise when starting out, or when wanting to stack purely for gold content, but.... 

Eventually a lot of people want to do more than just stack, its the collectors itch in people.  One size does not fit all.  I think once you start considering things like date runs you have gone past stacking the lowest cost (or premium) option.  

[RoughDog]

2 hours ago, AaaGee said:

Gold value Vs Sovereign collectabillity?

Gold value is almost guaranteed.  Collectability is uncertain and likely to change.

[stefffana]

You can try buying 1/10oz gold Lunar Series Perth Mint. Very nice little coins. Still in stock 2022 Tiger at Chards: 

https://www.chards.co.uk/2022-lunar-tiger-tenth-ounce-gold-perth-mint-coin/15141.

Also, Australian Kangaroos 1/10oz gold:

https://www.chards.co.uk/2022-kangaroo-nugget-one-tenth-ounce-gold-bullion-coin/15150

 

[LawrenceChard]

31 minutes ago, Orpster said:

Have read this a couple of times when linked and it is great advise when starting out, or when wanting to stack purely for gold content, but.... 

Eventually a lot of people want to do more than just stack, its the collectors itch in people.  One size does not fit all.  I think once you start considering things like date runs you have gone past stacking the lowest cost (or premium) option.  

I fully understand that, and broadly agree with it.

My Advice Guide for UK Bullion Investors page is aimed at dealing primarily with the investment aspect, and the OP does say "Just to add, im not a big player so want the best from what i buy", and seems to be seeking a sensible balance between investment and enjoyment.

I need to work on the pages linked from the above page, to include more of the collecting aspect, but it probably needs a whole book to do justice to the subject.

Way back in the 1960s I used to advise people to collect gold sovereigns, which were generally £4 each at the time. Some of our "Saturday Club" customers protested that they were only working men, not millionaires, but would happily spend £5 on a scarce penny, than £4 on a typical sovereign, or £5 on a minty or scarce date one!

Sovereigns would still be my preference, you could still amass a "collection" of 100 of them before you started to have to pay much extra for rarer dates.

Having a "run" in the short term is probably not the best long term aim.

😎

 

 

[ant1882]

18 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I fully understand that, and broadly agree with it.

My Advice Guide for UK Bullion Investors page is aimed at dealing primarily with the investment aspect, and the OP does say "Just to add, im not a big player so want the best from what i buy", and seems to be seeking a sensible balance between investment and enjoyment.

I need to work on the pages linked from the above page, to include more of the collecting aspect, but it probably needs a whole book to do justice to the subject.

Way back in the 1960s I used to advise people to collect gold sovereigns, which were generally £4 each at the time. Some of our "Saturday Club" customers protested that they were only working men, not millionaires, but would happily spend £5 on a scarce penny, than £4 on a typical sovereign, or £5 on a minty or scarce date one!

Sovereigns would still be my preference, you could still amass a "collection" of 100 of them before you started to have to pay much extra for rarer dates.

Having a "run" in the short term is probably not the best long term aim.

😎

 

 

After going all around the houses and deciding sovereigns were the best option for me, only then did I find the Chards investment advice guide.. better late than never, it's very good! So far I have a nice mix of new and old (none rare), and it's quite fun to find out which ones to look out for. Keeping my power dry just now for whatever the 2023 version brings 🙂

Just looking here https://www.chards.co.uk/bullion-sovereigns-minty-condition/12649

Are these always in the "Orderable" state on the website? As in you source them to order?

Anthony

[James32]

50 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Way back in the 1960s I used to advise people to collect gold sovereigns, which were generally £4 each at the time.

That was like 100s of year's ago! Any NOS?

[TheShinyStuff]

5 hours ago, AaaGee said:

So i have 2021 and 2022 1/10 & 1/4 brits starting a date run. And thinking of carrying it on untill the rear of the coin design changes. Should i give up now (will get the 2023 charles ones still) and put the money into sovereigns?

I can get a few of each every year but would there be a better way to go about it investment wise?

 

Cheers Rich 

 

Just to add, im not a big player so want the best from what i buy.

If you wanted to go down the date run route have you considered silver? It's much more achievable, affordable and there are loads of choices.

Although its not particularly my mantra, I've heard many times on this forum from people with much more savvy than  me - stack gold, collect silver.

Just a thought.

To add - in your position I'd probably date run the modern proof half sovereigns.

Edited October 11, 2022 by TheShinyStuff

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, ant1882 said:

After going all around the houses and deciding sovereigns were the best option for me, only then did I find the Chards investment advice guide.. better late than never, it's very good! So far I have a nice mix of new and old (none rare), and it's quite fun to find out which ones to look out for. Keeping my power dry just now for whatever the 2023 version brings 🙂

Just looking here https://www.chards.co.uk/bullion-sovereigns-minty-condition/12649

Are these always in the "Orderable" state on the website? As in you source them to order?

Anthony

This is because we can generally sell them quicker than we can get them.

No, we don't "source these to order". We continually buy them for stock. 

If we did "source them to order" as the RM do with many "Historic" coins, they would be more expensive.

Thanks for the positive feedback about our Advice Guide.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, James32 said:

That was like 100s of year's ago! Any NOS?

NOS? Nitrous Oxide?

😎

[James32]

2 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

NOS? Nitrous Oxide?

😎

I'll take that at £4 a go.

[Scootermuppet]

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

NOS? Nitrous Oxide?

😎

New / Old Stock presumably... but I like your interpretation Lawrence 🤭

[LawrenceChard]

4 minutes ago, Scootermuppet said:

New / Old Stock presumably... but I like your interpretation Lawrence 🤭

All credit goes to Google!

😎

[Scootermuppet]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

All credit goes to Google!

😎

🙂 Actually, I was familiar with the term - used in a lot of circles to describe original manufacturer stuff that's been sitting on a Stores / Warehouse shelf for many years, then is dusted off and sold - usually at a decent profit to be fair.

First came across it when restoring an old Mini years ago - depends on the actual component, but many survive intact and are perfectly useable (apart from rubber seals and other perishable bits), and it's a must-have for the Serious Restorers, to keep things 'Original' !

[ant1882]

23 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

This is because we can generally sell them quicker than we can get them.

No, we don't "source these to order". We continually buy them for stock. 

If we did "source them to order" as the RM do with many "Historic" coins, they would be more expensive.

Thanks for the positive feedback about our Advice Guide.

😎

That's good to know, thanks.

I won't order anything from RM directly anymore, first order I did they managed to mess up so not a good start. Decided to give them a 2nd chance and ordered a coin tube, only for them to send me completely the wrong one after a lengthy wait (nothing to do with postal strikes either).

Aside from that I moved address and wasn't able to edit my details on their website, had to email them and ask for the change... which ended up taking 3 weeks and conversations with multiple customer service reps.

[jackflash123]

2 hours ago, James32 said:

 Any NOS?

I’m doing a Lawrence…

NOS…?

No Over Selling
Never Over Sold
New Objects Sold
Newer Objects Shown
Never On Sundays
Nice On Sundays
Nervous Old Sinner
Naughty Old Sinner
Never On Side
Nobody On Side
Not On Scales
Nice Old Sovereign
Now On Sale
No Others Sold
Not Otherwise Specified
No Other Symptoms
National Ocean Service
National Occupational Standards
Next On Stack
Network Operating System
Notice Of Suspension
Notice Of Sale
National Osteoporosis Society
National Orange Show
Number Of Statements
Number Of Sectors
Nippon Office Systems
National Open School
National Ocean Survey
Nature Of Suit
Naval Observatory Station
Net One Systems
Non On Shelf
Naval Ordnance Station
Not On Schedule
Network Optimisation System
No One Survives

😆😆😆😆😆😆

[AaaGee]

Thanks for your input everyone.

Ok, as far as silver goes ive got 50+ oz. Britts mostly 2021 & 22 but a few older.  A handfull of royal arms and a few randoms that ive bought from here. A 2020 2oz queens beast so going to source the rest of those to get the full set.  And now started on the 2oz Tudor Beasts set. Next year will be less Britannias plus some more Royal arms (because i like em).

The rest of my money will be going on gold. Hoping to have about 4-5k a year to spend. All depending on life and what that throws at me. But thats the plan.

I look to be buying for about 10 to 12 years. Would be nice to say longer but only got into this in march and im knocking on already.

As i sead above, ill get the Charles 2023 in brits and Sovs as it'll be his 1st year. Gotta be worth something right?

Then I'll start browsing other designs in the same weights and look at sovereigns (definitely sovereigns but will educate myself on different years) aswell.

Thanks Lawrence, will take a look at your links to help me on my way👍

Edited October 11, 2022 by AaaGee

[LawrenceChard]

6 minutes ago, jackflash123 said:

I’m doing a Lawrence…

NOS…?

No Over Selling
Never Over Sold
New Objects Sold
Newer Objects Shown
Never On Sundays
Nice On Sundays
Nervous Old Sinner
Naughty Old Sinner
Never On Side
Nobody On Side
Not On Scales
Nice Old Sovereign
Now On Sale
No Others Sold
Not Otherwise Specified
No Other Symptoms
National Ocean Service
National Occupational Standards
Next On Stack
Network Operating System
Notice Of Suspension
Notice Of Sale
National Osteoporosis Society
National Orange Show
Number Of Statements
Number Of Sectors
Nippon Office Systems
National Open School
National Ocean Survey
Nature Of Suit
Naval Observatory Station
Net One Systems
Non On Shelf
Naval Ordnance Station
Not On Schedule
Network Optimisation System
No One Survives

😆😆😆😆😆😆

D.A.L.?

I'm happy to delegate...

.. or relinquish!

😎

[jackflash123]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

D.A.L.?

I'm happy to delegate...

.. or relinquish!

😎

Nah it’s your thing, I was just stepping in for a temporary period. It was actually quite fun to do 😆